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Liberals vs. Free Speech

 
 
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 07:26 am
Liberals vs. Free Speech
By Jack Kelly

Are there moderate Muslims? And if there are, why aren't they speaking out against the beheaders and the suicide bombers?

A lot of people ask those questions. Canadian filmmaker Martyn Burke set out to answer them. He made a documentary. "Islam vs. Islamist," which was financed in part by a $675,000 grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Mr. Burke hired journalists who reported from Denmark, France, Canada and the United States. There are a great many moderate Muslims, they found, but they don't speak out because they are intimidated by threats of coercion, ostracism and physical violence from the Islamists in their communities.

Mr. Burke's findings are important, but this column is about why the Public Broadcasting System chose not to air his documentary.

PBS had two objections, Mr. Burke told Bill Steigerwald of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. The first was that Mr. Burke showed "favoritism" to those Muslims who don't want to blow up their neighbors.

"Basically, the attitude...was that the Muslims we were portraying as the moderates were in some way, in their view, not true Muslims because they were Westernized," Mr. Burke told Mr. Steigerwald. "They felt the Islamists somehow represented a truer strain of Islam."

PBS also objected to Mr. Burke's co-producers, Frank Gaffney, a former assistant secretary of defense, and Alex Alexiev, a former RAND corporation expert on Islamic extremism.

"They demanded that I fire my two partners, because my partners were conservatives," Mr. Burke said.

PBS is the beau ideal of many liberals when it comes to free speech. Their point of view is subsidized by the taxpayers. Other points of view are suppressed.

In another triumph for the liberal view of free speech (free for me but not for thee), the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled city officials may override the First Amendment if the exercise of free speech by some city employees offends the delicate sensibilities of liberals.

Some black Christian women who work for the city of Oakland, California produced a flier in which they said "marriage is the foundation of the natural family and sustains family values." This was treated as "hate speech" by the city government after another city employee, who is a lesbian, said she "felt threatened" by the sentiment expressed.

Defending marriage is now a firing offense in Oakland, where, however, city officials see nothing inappropriate about permitting gay rights groups to advertise "Happy Coming Out Day" over the city communications system.

Liberal intolerance of other than liberal opinions is behind efforts to reinstate the inaptly named "Fairness doctrine" in radio.

A think tank funded in large part by George Soros and headed by former Clinton aide John Podesta has noted with alarm that 91 percent of total weekday talk programming is conservative. Mr. Podesta attributed the gap between conservative and "progressive" talk radio to "multiple structural problems in the U.S. regulatory system." He proposed new regulations to restrict conservatives and subsidize liberals.

But liberal talk radio is failing not because of "multiple structural problems in the U.S. regulatory system." It's failing because hardly anyone listens to it. Expensive efforts like Air America with big stars such as "comedian" Al Franken flopped because the audience for liberal talk is tiny.

Talk radio is an interactive medium. There may be something in that format that is especially appealing to conservatives. But I suspect talk radio has become a conservative bastion chiefly because the broadcast television networks, two of the three cable networks, and a large majority of the nation's most prominent newspapers and magazines -- not to mention publicly funded PBS and NPR -- are in liberal hands. There are few outlets for conservative expression other than talk radio and Fox News.

Since liberals control most -- and the most important -- media, it is hypocritical of them to wring their hands over conservative domination of talk radio. But many liberals will not be happy until all viewpoints other than their own have been suppressed.

I see this every day at the very liberal newspaper where I work. Conservatives often write angry letters to the editor, criticizing the arguments made in an editorial, or what they perceive as the slant in a news story. Liberals unhappy with my columns often demand that I be fired. They object not just to my point of view, but to the fact that it was expressed. Scratch a liberal, and you'll often find a fascist underneath.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 07:45 am
Perhaps you should have titled this thread...

"Conservatives vs Rational Thinking"

Mr Kelly doesn't make much of an argument. His piece is filled with logical fallacies and anecdotal evidence none of which provides much support for his title.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 08:11 am
Imbalanced on Talk Radio

Rush Limbaugh, the conservative talk-radio pioneer, has been called many nasty things before, but never a "structural imbalance." That's the fancy term a liberal think tank uses to characterize his success -- and to dress up its proposal for counteracting that success through new government regulation.

The report of the Center for American Progress on "The Structural Imbalance of Political Talk Radio" marks the latest phase in liberaldom's grappling with conservative talk radio. First came the attempts to create a liberal Limbaugh -- Mario Cuomo, Jim Hightower, et al. -- that fell flat. Then an entire left-wing network, Air America, was founded, and foundered. So there's only one option left -- if you can't beat them, and you won't join them, you can agitate for government to regulate them.

The report looks at a slice of 257 talk stations and concludes that more than 90 percent of total weekday talk programming is conservative. The supposed reason for this is, essentially, that media companies are conspiring to shove conservative radio down the throats of listeners in a way they couldn't if, among other things, government required broadcasters "to regularly show that they are operating on behalf of the public interest."

This is a pinched view of radio. There are upwards of 2,000 talk stations in the country that deal with news and issues, according to Michael Harrison of Talkers magazine, and they encompass all sorts of formats from National Public Radio to urban radio to shock jocks, none of which are dominated by right wingers. Conservative talk radio is a vibrant niche within that market, but there are many other places to go for news and opinion.

What is hard to find are liberal replicas of Rush Limbaugh, and that is due to the deepest structural imbalance of all -- talent. Limbaugh and other top conservative talkers are silver-tongued, informative and -- importantly -- entertaining. These are qualities that can't be conjured out of nowhere, and designated liberal-radio saviors have tended not to have the requisite talent "on loan from God" (as Limbaugh puts it).

There have been conservative failures at talk radio for the same reason. Without the right mix of substance and entertainment, a host will fail to get ratings, and with that, be yanked from the air. "Ratings" is a word that appears only once in passing in the Center for American Progress report, because then it would have to acknowledge that conservative radio is successful exactly because it gets listeners.

Broadcasters go where the money is. If a liberal could draw the kind of listeners -- and hence the kind of advertising dollars -- as Limbaugh, he too would be on more than 600 stations. This is why Spanish-language radio is such a growth commodity. Not because broadcasters have an agenda to Hispanicize America, or because there's a structural imbalance that favors Spanish-language over German- or French-language programming, but because there's an audience for it.

The Center for American Progress wants to short-circuit the market. Having bureaucrats determine whether radio stations are serving the public interest is inherently dangerous. There are times -- like now, in the debate about the immigration bill -- when Democrats and Republicans in Washington will agree that conservative talk radio is not serving the public interest because it brings to the table public sentiment that the establishment prefers to ignore.

The report avoids directly calling for a renewal of the constitutionally dubious Fairness Doctrine that mandated equal time for conservative and liberal opinions, although some Democratic lawmakers aren't so circumspect. After five years of opposing most assertions of government power to fight terrorism, these liberals are ready to wield it to fight conservative talk radio. After maintaining that the First Amendment protects nude dancing, they are ready to argue that it doesn't quite apply to people broadcasting conservative views over the airwaves.

In our toxic contemporary politics, it's a sign of success if you drive your opponents batty. Rush Limbaugh might be a structural imbalance, but his critics appear simply imbalanced.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 08:54 am
The Socialists, who parade around as democrats, want to eliminate Free Speech from the Constitution.

Seems Daine Feinstein and Hitlery Clinton want to "resurrect" the Fariness Docterine as a means to stop the exchange if ideas.

PBS should have it's TAXPAYER FUNDED license yanked for failing to show this documentory.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 09:07 am
Re: Liberals vs. Free Speech
Jack Kelly wrote:
Are there moderate Muslims? And if there are, why aren't they speaking out against the beheaders and the suicide bombers?

...Mr. Burke hired journalists who reported from Denmark, France, Canada and the United States. There are a great many moderate Muslims, they found, but they don't speak out because they are intimidated by threats of coercion, ostracism and physical violence from the Islamists in their communities.


For starters, there's the Free Muslims Coalition, the Muslims Against Terrorism, and Islam For Today's collection of essays calling out against terrorism.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 09:10 am
If it is true that there is no Free Speech for conservatives...

Why can't we get them to shut the hell up?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 01:36 pm
Re: Liberals vs. Free Speech
McGentrix wrote:

Mr. Burke hired journalists who reported from Denmark, France, Canada and the United States.


I don't know about the rest, but you would think that someone looking for moderate muslims might start by looking in muslim countries.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 01:50 pm
Quote:
Mr. Burke hired journalists who reported from Denmark, France, Canada and the United States. There are a great many moderate Muslims, they found, but they don't speak out because they are intimidated by threats of coercion, ostracism and physical violence from the Islamists in their communities.


We must invade a few more Islamic countries to stop 'moderate Muslims' from losing their battle against Islamists. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 01:52 pm
Re: Liberals vs. Free Speech
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:

Mr. Burke hired journalists who reported from Denmark, France, Canada and the United States.


I don't know about the rest, but you would think that someone looking for moderate muslims might start by looking in muslim countries.


That was classic! Laughing (Typo above post : 'stop' should read 'help')
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 10:00 pm
woiyo wrote:
The Socialists, who parade around as democrats, want to eliminate Free Speech from the Constitution.

Seems Daine Feinstein and Hitlery Clinton want to "resurrect" the Fariness Docterine as a means to stop the exchange if ideas.

PBS should have it's TAXPAYER FUNDED license yanked for failing to show this documentory.


Dammit, missed another parade. Woiyo wouldn't know a Socialist in the US if it bit him on his penis.

You bandy words around like an idiot. You don't even know what a socialist actually is, 'ceptin' your agin' it. So tell us in your own words what a "socialist" is?

BTW.... the project was being advised by one Frank Gaffney? And the tv people had a problem with it? I wonder why?

Sweet Jesus on the Cross, this Crazy Frank?

Quote:
You'd think that after embarrassing himself and his newspaper by basing a column on a fabricated quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln -- then hearing it cited in a key congressional debate on the Iraq war -- Frank J. Gaffney Jr. would just apologize and turn the page. Instead, in his new column today for The Washington Times, he draws on Lincoln again with the same goal: to lock up or otherwise punish critics of the Bush "surge" in Iraq, with Gaffney again charging them with "unacceptable treachery, if not actual treason" and giving "aid and comfort to the enemy."

Last week, E&P and others quickly pointed out the fake Lincoln quote following Gaffney's gaffe in his previous column. Yet it took the author and/or the newspaper more than two days to delete or correct the column, finally wiping it from the site on Friday and later carrying a correction. That quote, long hailed by conservatives in cyberspace, had Lincoln saying (at the very top of Gaffney's column), "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." It had been debunked last summer by FactCheck.org.

Now Gaffney is back, claiming that while the quote was not real, it was a "paraphrase" of Lincoln's actual views on dissent in wartime. Then he offers a new, and this time accurate, Lincoln quote, this one from a letter he wrote in June 1863 "as Robert E. Lee's army was on the march north to the fateful battle of Gettysburg."

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/02/fake-but-accurate-frank-gaffney-just.html

Or this Crazy Frank?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/16/glenn-greenwald-exposes-frank-gaffney/

Attributing anthropomorphic concepts like 'embarrassment' to people like Gaffney is plain wrong, they can't be embarrassed any more than they can conceive of ever being wrong.

Maybe that is part of why the PBS considered Crazy Frank's contribution ill-advised.

bbtw: Your remarks about democrats wanting to eliminate free speech from the Constitution and concerning the "Fariness Docterine" (whatever the hell that is) are just too shrill and stupid to waste time on. Shame on you for them. I had considered you a more meaningful and less shallow individual.

But, unlike Crazy Frank, I admit my mistakes.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2007 10:07 pm
Having been personally assaulted by Homeland Security and been deprived of my free speech rights, I must say, the Conservatives are the BEST at stuffing a sock in peoples mouths! I managed to avoid jail time by turning over my personal files. And I'm just a f*cking comedy writer!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 06:28 am
NickFun wrote:
Having been personally assaulted by Homeland Security and been deprived of my free speech rights, I must say, the Conservatives are the BEST at stuffing a sock in peoples mouths! I managed to avoid jail time by turning over my personal files. And I'm just a f*cking comedy writer!


Laughing Laughing

You probably deserved it. Take your medicine like a man.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 09:13 am
kuvasz wrote:
woiyo wrote:
The Socialists, who parade around as democrats, want to eliminate Free Speech from the Constitution.

Seems Daine Feinstein and Hitlery Clinton want to "resurrect" the Fariness Docterine as a means to stop the exchange if ideas.

PBS should have it's TAXPAYER FUNDED license yanked for failing to show this documentory.


Dammit, missed another parade. Woiyo wouldn't know a Socialist in the US if it bit him on his penis.

You bandy words around like an idiot. You don't even know what a socialist actually is, 'ceptin' your agin' it. So tell us in your own words what a "socialist" is?

BTW.... the project was being advised by one Frank Gaffney? And the tv people had a problem with it? I wonder why?

Sweet Jesus on the Cross, this Crazy Frank?

Quote:
You'd think that after embarrassing himself and his newspaper by basing a column on a fabricated quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln -- then hearing it cited in a key congressional debate on the Iraq war -- Frank J. Gaffney Jr. would just apologize and turn the page. Instead, in his new column today for The Washington Times, he draws on Lincoln again with the same goal: to lock up or otherwise punish critics of the Bush "surge" in Iraq, with Gaffney again charging them with "unacceptable treachery, if not actual treason" and giving "aid and comfort to the enemy."

Last week, E&P and others quickly pointed out the fake Lincoln quote following Gaffney's gaffe in his previous column. Yet it took the author and/or the newspaper more than two days to delete or correct the column, finally wiping it from the site on Friday and later carrying a correction. That quote, long hailed by conservatives in cyberspace, had Lincoln saying (at the very top of Gaffney's column), "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." It had been debunked last summer by FactCheck.org.

Now Gaffney is back, claiming that while the quote was not real, it was a "paraphrase" of Lincoln's actual views on dissent in wartime. Then he offers a new, and this time accurate, Lincoln quote, this one from a letter he wrote in June 1863 "as Robert E. Lee's army was on the march north to the fateful battle of Gettysburg."

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/02/fake-but-accurate-frank-gaffney-just.html

Or this Crazy Frank?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/16/glenn-greenwald-exposes-frank-gaffney/

Attributing anthropomorphic concepts like 'embarrassment' to people like Gaffney is plain wrong, they can't be embarrassed any more than they can conceive of ever being wrong.

Maybe that is part of why the PBS considered Crazy Frank's contribution ill-advised.

bbtw: Your remarks about democrats wanting to eliminate free speech from the Constitution and concerning the "Fariness Docterine" (whatever the hell that is) are just too shrill and stupid to waste time on. Shame on you for them. I had considered you a more meaningful and less shallow individual.

But, unlike Crazy Frank, I admit my mistakes.


Why you interested in my penis? Maybe you are used to getting down on your knees and sucking on your Socialists members. However, towards me, you are just a moron, annd possibly homosexual, not that there is anything wrong with that.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 01:29 pm
http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/070626/lester.gif
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:01 pm
What's that got to do with the price of eggs?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:04 pm
Kelly's assertion that the media is liberal contrasts with liberals' assertion that the media is conservative. It all depends on how far to the right or the left one is. When I look at foriegn programs (the Briltsh and Mexican news) and see what the American press DOES NOT even talk about, I'm convinced of the essentially conservative posture of most of our media.

And, as a liberal left-of-center I believe that when you scratch an extreme conservative you uncover a fascist.
It's a matter of perspective.

BTW, Air America seems to be going strong. Al Franken left his "Al Franken Show" to go into politics, not for lack of sponsor support.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:34 pm
woiyo wrote:
kuvasz wrote:
woiyo wrote:
The Socialists, who parade around as democrats, want to eliminate Free Speech from the Constitution.

Seems Daine Feinstein and Hitlery Clinton want to "resurrect" the Fariness Docterine as a means to stop the exchange if ideas.

PBS should have it's TAXPAYER FUNDED license yanked for failing to show this documentory.


Dammit, missed another parade. Woiyo wouldn't know a Socialist in the US if it bit him on his penis.

You bandy words around like an idiot. You don't even know what a socialist actually is, 'ceptin' your agin' it. So tell us in your own words what a "socialist" is?

BTW.... the project was being advised by one Frank Gaffney? And the tv people had a problem with it? I wonder why?

Sweet Jesus on the Cross, this Crazy Frank?

Quote:
You'd think that after embarrassing himself and his newspaper by basing a column on a fabricated quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln -- then hearing it cited in a key congressional debate on the Iraq war -- Frank J. Gaffney Jr. would just apologize and turn the page. Instead, in his new column today for The Washington Times, he draws on Lincoln again with the same goal: to lock up or otherwise punish critics of the Bush "surge" in Iraq, with Gaffney again charging them with "unacceptable treachery, if not actual treason" and giving "aid and comfort to the enemy."

Last week, E&P and others quickly pointed out the fake Lincoln quote following Gaffney's gaffe in his previous column. Yet it took the author and/or the newspaper more than two days to delete or correct the column, finally wiping it from the site on Friday and later carrying a correction. That quote, long hailed by conservatives in cyberspace, had Lincoln saying (at the very top of Gaffney's column), "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." It had been debunked last summer by FactCheck.org.

Now Gaffney is back, claiming that while the quote was not real, it was a "paraphrase" of Lincoln's actual views on dissent in wartime. Then he offers a new, and this time accurate, Lincoln quote, this one from a letter he wrote in June 1863 "as Robert E. Lee's army was on the march north to the fateful battle of Gettysburg."

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/02/fake-but-accurate-frank-gaffney-just.html

Or this Crazy Frank?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/16/glenn-greenwald-exposes-frank-gaffney/

Attributing anthropomorphic concepts like 'embarrassment' to people like Gaffney is plain wrong, they can't be embarrassed any more than they can conceive of ever being wrong.

Maybe that is part of why the PBS considered Crazy Frank's contribution ill-advised.

bbtw: Your remarks about democrats wanting to eliminate free speech from the Constitution and concerning the "Fariness Docterine" (whatever the hell that is) are just too shrill and stupid to waste time on. Shame on you for them. I had considered you a more meaningful and less shallow individual.

But, unlike Crazy Frank, I admit my mistakes.


Why you interested in my penis? Maybe you are used to getting down on your knees and sucking on your Socialists members. However, towards me, you are just a moron, annd possibly homosexual, not that there is anything wrong with that.


Ah, the summit of schoolyard dialectic; accusing an opponent of being a faggot!

Nicely done.

One step down and a quantum intellectual leap from "your Mamma" insults. What a clever guy.

I bet you keep a potato as a pet too.

Um, wanna' date?

Perhaps on our way to the rough and tumble I can teach you how to spell.

You are too much of a caricature of Right Wing phobics to get upset at, like a guy with congenital body odor. Its just the way God made you. So, stand upwind and don't complain too much.

Oddly our differences are succinctly defined; you cast about with epitaphs about what I am, and I comment on what you think. So, who's getting personal here?

Interesting how Right Wing rhetoric has become little more than a vehicle for hating on others. Whether it's brown or black people, or gay people, or entire cities ("San Francisco liberals"), states ("Taxachussetts"), or regions ("Coastal Elites"), you guys are left to demonizing to get any traction with anyone.

In the end you'd rather just mentally compartmentalize and call someone a name than get down to the hard and dirty process of thrashing through the facts with objective thought.

That's pretty much epitomized by George Bush and his own intellectual laziness and revulsion to process.

Yes, I can see how you guys consider him your avatar.

btw, and back on course, Crazy Frank Gaffney is a blatant and proven pathological liar (as my earlier links showed) and likely sufficient reasons PBS was concerned about his participation with the program, and directly counter-points the thesis of the thread.

So to walk you to the drinking pool, the thesis was an accusation of an attempt to cenure a tv program because if its political perspective. It has been shown that the reasons not to air the program was because of the non-objective bias of its creators' and contributors past behavior for lying publicly.

If you want to you can defend him and his lying behavior, or continue to fantasize about my love life.

But if the latter, lets move it over to the relationship forum.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:37 pm
*yawn*

You are boring us kuvasz. You singing dog show is old and tired.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:38 pm
McGentrix wrote:
*yawn*

You are boring us kuvasz. You singing dog show is old and tired.


As opposed to your continually vapid trolling? Hardly.

If you can't do better then you are doing these days, why do you even bother to come to A2K? Seriously.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2007 02:44 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
*yawn*

You are boring us kuvasz. You singing dog show is old and tired.


As opposed to your continually vapid trolling? Hardly.

If you can't do better then you are doing these days, why do you even bother to come to A2K? Seriously.

Cycloptichorn


So you can up your post count be continuously expressing your disdain of my posts.

I thought that was obvious?
0 Replies
 
 

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