revel
I appreciate you hanging in there but the format of our back and forth has become too complicated for me to work within.
let me see if I can make it simpler:
revel wrote:The point is that Cheney told an agency within the National Archives that his office is exempt from the President's executive order which safeguards national security information.
Finn wrote: True, but how does that unerringly lead to the hysterical allegations you are making?
revel wrote:It proves Cheney is with holding documents to National Archives on false premises. The reason Cheney gave the National Archives for not complying with request was because he is not an entity within the executive branch. This is a false reason and it directly contradicts some of his previous statements in which he claimed executive privilege and some of his previous statements in which he referred to himself as being part of the executive branch.
It hardly proves anything.
I concede that it suggests the VP's office has something of an identity crisis, but it does not prove your assertion, or lead anywhere near the more hyperbolic claims you have previously made.
Again, the request, the response and the Waxmanian tempest thereafter have all been similar manifestations of partisan politics. No one, including Cheney, rises from this mess with any sort of sheen of shining integrity, but that is the nature of politics. It is a nature that I find unseemly and disturbing but it is hardly relegated to one side or the other.
revel wrote:If this is true then Cheney can give out any information he wants to for any reason to anybody in the world and there would not be another branch or agency which could have oversight to make sure he (or anyone else in that position) was not giving out information which could put this nation at risk.
Finn wrote:No it means he would not be subject to this particular Executive Order. He still would be subject to all the many statutes we have that govern the release of classified information. If Waxman has some reason to believe Cheney is in violation of these statutes then he should press on and prove his allegations. It also means that you are beginning with the basic premise that Cheney either wants to put the nation at risk or simply just doesn't care if he does or not. That's a pretty bold statement. Can't be that you are knee-jerk Liberal (nothwithstanding that the fact that there are some things you liked about Ronnie)?
revel wrote:In the past he claimed executive privilege to keep from disclosing documents or other request, now he claiming he is not part of the executive branch so he does not have comply with the executive order to disclose documents to the National Archive about his security program. He has a catch 22 for any request for documents since when it suits him he can claim executive privilege from congress (legislative branch) as he has done in the past and now he claims he is not part of executive branch to get out of complying with this latest request for documents by the national archives. He is in effect his own branch of government not answerable to anyone. And it is not a knee jerk reaction, just an honest leeriness of Cheney after reading so many articles about him.
First of all, even if everything you suggest about Cheney's claiming a dual identity is true, it is only an attempt to respond to political attacks. If Waxman or anyone else has reason to believe that Cheney has violated any statute regarding the protection of classified documents let them start their investigation or bring charges. There is no basis for a congressional investigation of compliance with Executive Orders. Any move down that route is clearly a political "gottcha" effort.
Secondly, there is a rather wide gap between being leery of someone and assuming the worse of them. Throughout this thread (and probably this forum) you have displayed the latter, not the former. I am leery of Waxman, but I do not suggest that his partisan antics reveal a deliberate disregard for the security of this nation.
Finn wrote:Nonsense. The National Archives are not in any way connected to Waxman, and their efforts (politically motivated) were not part of Waxman "doing his job."
revel wrote:Waxman is chairman of the Oversight and Government reform, of course this particular dispute between the national archives and Cheney would fall in his purview of duties.
Well, you've given Mr. Waxman quite an extremely broad purview: If it happens in government, he has jurisdiction. I'm afraid you are alone here. Even Waxman has acknowledged that this dispute does not fall within the jurisdiction of his committee. If it did, you can bet an investigation would have already been launched. What Waxman has done is taken to the airwaves to make political hay out of this matter.
(Please allow me to continue later - even this simplifying approach is tiresome.)