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Cheney: VP's office not part of Executive branch.

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 09:46 am
Another Look at the VP's Classification Authority
Another Look at the VP's Classification Authority
By Steve Aftergood
Secrecy News
Monday 02 July 2007

The White House press office and some Bush Administration critics are insisting that the 2003 executive order on classification policy endowed the Vice President with a unique status and classification powers identical to those of the President himself.

But that's not what the executive order says.

"In this executive order the President is saying that the Vice President is not different than him," said White House press secretary Dana Perino on June 25.

"The executive order on classified national security information - Executive Order 12958 as amended in 2003 - makes it clear that the Vice President is treated like the President and distinguishes the two of them from 'agencies'," wrote David Addington, the Vice President's chief of staff in a June 26 letter (pdf) to Senator Kerry.

Similarly, New York Times columnist and Bush critic Frank Rich wrote yesterday that in 2003 "every provision [in the executive order] that gave powers to the president over classified documents was amended to give the identical powers to the vice president."

Mr. Rich claimed that "this unprecedented increase in vice-presidential clout" has "special importance" for understanding the Iraq war, the Valerie Plame case and more.

"By giving Mr. Cheney the same classification powers he had, Mr. Bush gave his vice president a free hand to wield a clandestine weapon: he could use leaks to punish administration critics," wrote Mr. Rich.

From an opposing political perspective, Byron York of the National Review wrote last year that the revised executive order constituted an "enormously consequential expansion of vice-presidential power.

More soberly, the Congressional Research Service reported in a memo to Rep. Henry Waxman (pdf) that "Among the modifications made by the new [executive] order were the vesting of the vice president with authority coequal to that of the President to security classify information originally."

And I myself wrote in Secrecy News last year that the language of the 2003 executive order "dramatically elevates the Vice President's classification authority to that of the President."

On closer examination, none of this appears to be correct.

The text of the 2003 executive order does not grant any new classification authority to the Vice President beyond that which he already possessed as one of some two dozen officials authorized by the President to classify information originally at the Top Secret level. Like those other officials, the Vice President was already authorized to classify information within the scope of the executive order, and to delegate his authority to others. No additional classification powers were provided in the new order.

A line by line comparison of the Bush executive order with the prior order, indicating what was added and what was deleted in 2003, shows that every classification authority granted to the Vice President was also granted to other agency heads, such as the Secretary of Defense or the Secretary of State, and was also possessed by the Vice President himself in the past.

Mr. Addington and the White House press office argue that the mere juxtaposition of references to the President and the Vice President in the text of the 2003 Bush order - such as in section 1.3(a)(1) - somehow translates into new status for the Vice President. But again, no such status or new authority is articulated in the order.

To the contrary, the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, who is charged by the President with implementing and overseeing the executive order, concluded that an interpretation of the order which treats the Office of the Vice President as entirely distinct from other executive branch entities is not consistent with a "plain text reading," as he wrote to the Attorney General (pdf).

Fundamentally, the Vice President's classification authority is not and cannot be identical to that of the President. The President's authority is inherent, stemming from his status as commander in chief of the armed forces; the Vice President's authority is derivative. Likewise, and for the same reason, the President can alter the provisions of the executive order at a moment's notice; the Vice President cannot.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jul, 2007 11:23 am
That last paragraph only supports what Cheney has done and will continue to do as the puppeteer of Bush.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2007 03:50 pm
revel

I appreciate you hanging in there but the format of our back and forth has become too complicated for me to work within.


let me see if I can make it simpler:

revel wrote:
The point is that Cheney told an agency within the National Archives that his office is exempt from the President's executive order which safeguards national security information.


Finn wrote:
True, but how does that unerringly lead to the hysterical allegations you are making?


revel wrote:
It proves Cheney is with holding documents to National Archives on false premises. The reason Cheney gave the National Archives for not complying with request was because he is not an entity within the executive branch. This is a false reason and it directly contradicts some of his previous statements in which he claimed executive privilege and some of his previous statements in which he referred to himself as being part of the executive branch.


It hardly proves anything.

I concede that it suggests the VP's office has something of an identity crisis, but it does not prove your assertion, or lead anywhere near the more hyperbolic claims you have previously made.

Again, the request, the response and the Waxmanian tempest thereafter have all been similar manifestations of partisan politics. No one, including Cheney, rises from this mess with any sort of sheen of shining integrity, but that is the nature of politics. It is a nature that I find unseemly and disturbing but it is hardly relegated to one side or the other.

revel wrote:
If this is true then Cheney can give out any information he wants to for any reason to anybody in the world and there would not be another branch or agency which could have oversight to make sure he (or anyone else in that position) was not giving out information which could put this nation at risk.


Finn wrote:
No it means he would not be subject to this particular Executive Order. He still would be subject to all the many statutes we have that govern the release of classified information. If Waxman has some reason to believe Cheney is in violation of these statutes then he should press on and prove his allegations. It also means that you are beginning with the basic premise that Cheney either wants to put the nation at risk or simply just doesn't care if he does or not. That's a pretty bold statement. Can't be that you are knee-jerk Liberal (nothwithstanding that the fact that there are some things you liked about Ronnie)?



revel wrote:
In the past he claimed executive privilege to keep from disclosing documents or other request, now he claiming he is not part of the executive branch so he does not have comply with the executive order to disclose documents to the National Archive about his security program. He has a catch 22 for any request for documents since when it suits him he can claim executive privilege from congress (legislative branch) as he has done in the past and now he claims he is not part of executive branch to get out of complying with this latest request for documents by the national archives. He is in effect his own branch of government not answerable to anyone. And it is not a knee jerk reaction, just an honest leeriness of Cheney after reading so many articles about him.


First of all, even if everything you suggest about Cheney's claiming a dual identity is true, it is only an attempt to respond to political attacks. If Waxman or anyone else has reason to believe that Cheney has violated any statute regarding the protection of classified documents let them start their investigation or bring charges. There is no basis for a congressional investigation of compliance with Executive Orders. Any move down that route is clearly a political "gottcha" effort.

Secondly, there is a rather wide gap between being leery of someone and assuming the worse of them. Throughout this thread (and probably this forum) you have displayed the latter, not the former. I am leery of Waxman, but I do not suggest that his partisan antics reveal a deliberate disregard for the security of this nation.

Finn wrote:
Nonsense. The National Archives are not in any way connected to Waxman, and their efforts (politically motivated) were not part of Waxman "doing his job."


revel wrote:
Waxman is chairman of the Oversight and Government reform, of course this particular dispute between the national archives and Cheney would fall in his purview of duties.


Well, you've given Mr. Waxman quite an extremely broad purview: If it happens in government, he has jurisdiction. I'm afraid you are alone here. Even Waxman has acknowledged that this dispute does not fall within the jurisdiction of his committee. If it did, you can bet an investigation would have already been launched. What Waxman has done is taken to the airwaves to make political hay out of this matter.

(Please allow me to continue later - even this simplifying approach is tiresome.)
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2007 07:31 am
Since its tiresome, lets just drop it, we are going to disagree anyway.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2007 03:58 pm
One shoe has dropped.

Excerpt:

Associated Press
Panel Moves to Cut Off Funds to Cheney
By ANDREW TAYLOR 07.10.07, 5:39 PM ET

Senate Democrats moved Tuesday to cut off funding for Vice President Dick Cheney's office in a continuing battle over whether he must comply with national security disclosure rules.

A Senate appropriations panel chaired by Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., refused to fund $4.8 million in the vice president's budget until Cheney's office complies with parts of an executive order governing its handling of classified information.

Source
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2007 04:00 pm
Brand X wrote:
One shoe has dropped.

Excerpt:

Associated Press
Panel Moves to Cut Off Funds to Cheney
By ANDREW TAYLOR 07.10.07, 5:39 PM ET

Senate Democrats moved Tuesday to cut off funding for Vice President Dick Cheney's office in a continuing battle over whether he must comply with national security disclosure rules.

A Senate appropriations panel chaired by Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., refused to fund $4.8 million in the vice president's budget until Cheney's office complies with parts of an executive order governing its handling of classified information.

Source


You can expect more like this in the future.

I don't understand why people expect Congress to just roll over and play dead. If the WH wants to play hardball... that's exactly what they will get.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2007 04:21 pm
...or should get. But I don't have much confidence in the democratic lead congress. I'm not in the "show me" state, but there's nothing I can hang my hat on - yet.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2007 08:40 pm
revel wrote:
Since its tiresome, lets just drop it, we are going to disagree anyway.


Thank you for conceding --- clearly you have come to the sensible conclusion that your argument is, at best, feeble and must give way to the overpowering contention that you and

your fellow Libs are but the Weak Sisters of A2K blather.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 06:28 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
revel wrote:
Since its tiresome, lets just drop it, we are going to disagree anyway.


Thank you for conceding --- clearly you have come to the sensible conclusion that your argument is, at best, feeble and must give way to the overpowering contention that you and

your fellow Libs are but the Weak Sisters of A2K blather.


QFT Laughing
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jul, 2007 06:35 am
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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