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Is the Embassy Proof of Duplicity?

 
 
snood
 
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 04:38 am
From the start, Bushco has lied about their intentions in Iraq. I remember seeing reports of several permanent bases being established there during the first year of our occupation - while their talking points were still about "finding wmd" and "bringing freedom to the people of Iraq", and assorted other hogwash.

Now they're building a supersize US "embassy" with very little fanfare, estimated final cost to be between 500M - a billion dollars.

Does anyone still believe that Bush EVER intended to accomplish any "mission" and then leave? Is there still doubt among the sane that this has been about oil profits from the start?



http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060414/060414_embassy_hmed_3p.hlarge.jpg




http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060414/060414_embassy_hmed_3p.hlarge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/&h=273&w=584&sz=24&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=JjarCDbEdR_N5M:&tbnh=63&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DUS%2Bembassy%2Bin%2BIraq%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLJ,GGLJ:2006-32,GGLJ:en
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,071 • Replies: 62
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 05:36 am
Excellent documentation to support your argument. To answer your question directly, yes, millions of us believe that.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 05:41 am
Even more millions go along with snood on this one.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 05:43 am
Quote:
Iraq's interim government transferred the land to U.S. ownership in October 2004, under an agreement whose terms were not disclosed.


Interesting. I wonder if there was any influence in the election as to who would agree to do such a thing.


Quote:
The designs aren't publicly available, but the Senate report makes clear it will be a self-sufficient and "hardened" domain, to function in the midst of Baghdad power outages, water shortages and continuing turmoil.

It will have its own water wells, electricity plant and wastewater-treatment facility, "systems to allow 100 percent independence from city utilities," says the report, the most authoritative open source on the embassy plans.


If they were to instead concentrate on getting these same utilities up and running for the Iraqi people, we could bring our boys and girls home.

Oh, wait... That wasn't in the plan.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 05:55 am
American embassy in Kuala Lumpur


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:American_Embassy_Kuala_Lumpur_Dec._2006_003.jpg
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:00 am
Is there some point you're trying to make by posting a picture of an embassy in SE Asia?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:10 am
I don't know why you stretched the screen with that image link
when you have already posted the image.

People are unlikely to respond to a thread when it is so annoyingly
difficult to read the first page. Perhaps more will show up to comment
when this goes to a second page.

More significant than the embassy are the bases that are being built.
I agree that there was really no point in Brandon posting about the
embassy in Malaysia, but the supporters of this too live crew on
Pennsylvania Avenue will have big embassies and "so what" as a
response so long as you make the embassy in Iraq the focus.

Why don't you see if you can dig up some information and images
on the military bases we are constructing in Iraq? At the PNAC web
site, it is easy to find evidence that establishing permanent military bases
in southwest Asia (read: Iraq) was a part of the plan even before the
Shrub was elected. Tie that to evidence that those bases are being built, and you have a much stronger position.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:12 am
I didn't post the link for the image, I posted the link for the story that went with the image - but your point is taken about stretching the screen. I just didn't know how to avoid it and still link to the story.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:13 am
http://i11.tinypic.com/67yw8wl.jpg


With a "Saigon-experience"-exit?

http://i16.tinypic.com/6g03wnc.jpg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:16 am
Good point Walter (that was nasty, and funny . . . félicitations).
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:16 am
snood wrote:
Is there some point you're trying to make by posting a picture of an embassy in SE Asia?

Yes. We have embassies lots and lots of places. It doesn't imply that the latest in a long line of anti-Bush conspiracy theories is correct.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:17 am
Bump

Are we on a new page yet?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:20 am
Four Giant Bases Being Built in Iraq
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:20 am
Do you still refuse to visit the web site of The Project for a New American Century, Brandon? Even if you do, others can go there and see that this administration, which employs a great many of the founding members of the PNAC has planned this all along, before they even had an excuse to frighten the American people into accepting the invasion of Iraq.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:34 am
Setanta wrote:
Do you still refuse to visit the web site of The Project for a New American Century, Brandon? Even if you do, others can go there and see that this administration, which employs a great many of the founding members of the PNAC has planned this all along, before they even had an excuse to frighten the American people into accepting the invasion of Iraq.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

I was ardently hoping for an invasion of Iraq years before it happened, simply because I was afraid that Saddam Hussein was secretly continuing development of WMD, and that if he did attain them, something terrible might happen. How is that immoral?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:40 am
Very good, Squinney.

The PNAC has had this on the agenda since before the Shrub was elected:

Quote:
Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.


From a letter addressed to President Clinton on January 26, 1998.

The letter was signed by, among others, Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz.

If one goes to the PNAC web site, one can see the drum beat of the alleged (and as the invasion ultimately proved, fantasy) threat of weapons of mass destruction. Beginning in 1997, the PNAC has constantly claimed that Iraq was a major threat to deploy and use against us weapons of mass destruction. Then they got their boy in power in 2001, September 11th provided the atmosphere of hysteria and fear necessary to launch their project (see the quote of Georing above), and they were able to act.

The womds were not found, and this administration has made a hash of the entire operation. More than 3000 Americans dead, and tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead as a result. And all because this administration, and its many officers who are PNAC members, have always intended to invade Iraq, and establish a permanent military presence there.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 06:49 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Do you still refuse to visit the web site of The Project for a New American Century, Brandon? Even if you do, others can go there and see that this administration, which employs a great many of the founding members of the PNAC has planned this all along, before they even had an excuse to frighten the American people into accepting the invasion of Iraq.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

I was ardently hoping for an invasion of Iraq years before it happened, simply because I was afraid that Saddam Hussein was secretly continuing development of WMD, and that if he did attain them, something terrible might happen. How is that immoral?


We have to take your word for that, but granting that it is true, i would point out to you that i do not question the morality of the invasion, if it had been a sincere action based on sincere motives. What i question is the sincerity of the motives of this administration. The PNAC has had a plan to invade Iraq and establish permanent military bases in the region of the world with the greatest concentration of proven reserves of the most valuable grade of petroleum known, and had that plan for ten years. Weapons of mass destruction was just a dodge, and excuse. It was that appeal to fear, to terror, and the basis for claiming that opponents were unpatriotic cowards who would expose the nation to danger. When they made the call for that invasion, they had no proof that there were womds. The ignored the fact that inspectors had found no evidence of such weapons or programs for such weapons, and that the Iraqis were cooperating. Failing to find evidence to support their claim, the manufactured it and lied.

And the reason is and has been all along to get a military foothold in the middle east.

Have you called for years for an invasion of North Korea? They have womds, and the means and will to use them. Have you called for years for an invasion of Pakistan? Have you called for years for an invasion of India? Have you called for years for and invasion of Israel? All of those nations have nuclear weapons. It's nice to see that you are so naively willing to expose yourself as a dupe to conservative propaganda. But your personal morality and credulity are not at issue.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 05:54 pm
Glenn Greenwald had post about this yesterday or before. I'm going to find it now. But yeah, the PNAC plan was to use Iraq as staging area for further conquest, so there doesn't seem to be any plan to withdraw, period.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 06:00 pm
Here it is.

It's from Monday and pretty long, but I'll snip the part I thought was related.

Quote:
One of the most under-discussed facts with regard to Iraq is that the very people who conceived of the invasion and who are the architects of our current military strategy have always believed, and still believe, that we must go to war with Iran. Our current strategy in Iraq was designed and, to a large degree, implemented with that goal in mind.

Writing in The Weekly Standard this weekend, "Surge architect" Fred Kagan and chief Iraq war propagandist Bill Kristol made that as clear as can be, in an article entitled "Congress Gives in on War Funding -- Now Can We Fight the Enemy?" (and by "Enemy," they do not mean "Iraqi insurgents," at least not solely):

This means that our victory there will be an important victory in the larger struggle against terrorism--and our defeat there would embolden and empower our enemies. And the reality is that Iran and Syria are enemies. Most foreign fighters join al Qaeda in Iraq via Syria. And Iran has been sending advanced weapons and advisers into Iraq. These weapons and insurgents supported by Iran are killing our soldiers on a daily basis. There should be no doubt about the hostile role Iran and Syria are playing in Iraq today.

Kristol, of course, previously has expressly called for a U.S. war against Iran, and he even urged the White House to seek a Resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iran prior to the 2006 election. And Fred Kagan himself has acknowledged that he believes U.S. military strategy in Iraq -- including the "surge" which he personally designed -- must be developed "with the possibility of conflict with Iran ever on the horizon."

All of the super-serious and responsible pundits may be drowning in angst over the fact that we cannot leave Iraq because it is so very vital that, before we leave, we stabilize that country and turn it into a beacon of democracy, or at least avert even worse violence. But however laudable that goal might be, that is not the goal of the people controlling our actual strategy in Iraq. Stabilizing Iraq in order to leave is not what they are interested in.

What they seek -- by their own acknowledgment -- is a conflict with Iran and Syria, and they want to stay in Iraq because that is how that goal can be achieved. Joe Lieberman published an Op-Ed at the end of last year declaring that America's real enemy in this "war" is Iran. Charles Krauthammer and John Podhoretz last year both proclaimed -- excitedly -- that U.S. war with Iran was inevitable, and that (according to Krauthammer) it would be less than a year away.

On their Fox television show this weekend, Wall St. Journal pundits Paul Gigot and Bret Stephens warned of the grave threat posed by Iran (which, needless to say, was compared to Nazi Germany), and the even greater danger of the "U.N. path," which is too "slow and toothless."

And Fred Hiatt's Washington Post Editorial this morning said this: "Military action against Iran would be a desperate and probably ineffective measure. Barring an emergency, the Bush administration should not undertake it." With U.S. forces extremely active in two of Iran's neighboring countries, and the belligerent rhetoric and provocative actions escalating on both sides, nothing is easier than imagining an "emergency" which would "justify" the "military action against Iran" to which Hiatt is plainly receptive.

These are not fringe figures, even if they ought to be. These are the people who have driven the Bush administration's foreign policy since its inception. Their advocacy, in almost every case, foreshadows what the Bush administration does. And they are, with increasing explicitness, pining for war with Iran, and our occupation of Iraq -- militarily, strategically, and politically -- is what enables that conflict.


There are a lot of interesting points in that post, actually.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 06:01 pm
0 Replies
 
 

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