Why Don't Christians ever present any evidence?

Brandon9000 wrote:

neologist wrote:

You can't provide empirical proof for or against any entity that exists outside of our perception of space and time such as the word supernatural implies. all you can do is provide anecdotal or circumstantial evidence which has to be evaluated according to personal standards.

So, if you could accurately post your personal standards, I might be able to provide you with evidence.

There certainly could be evidence. There could be cases in which numerous people saw the same visitation in modern times, things that can't be explained any other way, etc. Even on that level, you guys avoid logical presentation of evidence.

If you wish to have God make a special revelation for your sake, I don't think I can help you. If you wish to see God's spirit in operation, Jesus claimed that "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) So, if you could find that group, you may get a revelation. Possibly.

HMM, i have a question, has the planet always spun at the rate it does today?

if it the earth was rotating slow enough, a day back then could have been millions of years today.Using current time keeping techniques other than just the spin of the earth around the sun.

right?

neologist wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

neologist wrote:

You can't provide empirical proof for or against any entity that exists outside of our perception of space and time such as the word supernatural implies. all you can do is provide anecdotal or circumstantial evidence which has to be evaluated according to personal standards.

So, if you could accurately post your personal standards, I might be able to provide you with evidence.

There certainly could be evidence. There could be cases in which numerous people saw the same visitation in modern times, things that can't be explained any other way, etc. Even on that level, you guys avoid logical presentation of evidence.

If you wish to have God make a special revelation for your sake, I don't think I can help you. If you wish to see God's spirit in operation, Jesus claimed that "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) So, if you could find that group, you may get a revelation. Possibly.

I didn't ask for a personal revelation. I said that if a supernatural being created the world and interacts with it, there ought to be some sign of it.

HMM, i have a question, has the planet always spun at the rate it does today?

if it the earth was rotating slow enough, a day back then could have been millions of years today.Using current time keeping techniques other than just the spin of the earth around the sun.

right?

I'm with you, Sterio. I tend to like proof of things before I wrap my life around it...

How to prove [person] loves me.

1) Select person.
2) Examine personal history with that person.
3) Evaluate positive experiances. What degree of interaction did you have? Was there mutual benifit?
4) Evaluate negative experiances. What was the intent of the other person?
5) Evaluate emotional reactions to the person. Do you feel safe or threatened by them? Do you desire to be closer to the person? If they were upset with you, how would that make you feel?
6) Hypothosize that person's absence. How would there death affect you? How easy would it be to leave them?
7) If still unclear, find other criteria as love supplementally defined by you as an individual.
8) pass or fail; love or not.

The truth is, that I can fortunately simply go to my mother and ask her if I love her. I can ask myself. no proof greater than a simple query is needed.

You seem to think that proving something like this would be difficult. Make your point. You think that the bible or Christianity is so easily proven?

If so, then do it.

Neo - No it doesn't say that the seventh day has ended. But we certainly have had many literal days.

So what is it? Figurative speech? How is "7 days" figurative but "Rose from the dead" literal?

I need evidence, but first I need a clear stance from you.

I Stereo wrote:

How to prove [person] loves me.

1) Select person.
2) Examine personal history with that person.
3) Evaluate positive experiances. What degree of interaction did you have? Was there mutual benifit?
4) Evaluate negative experiances. What was the intent of the other person?
5) Evaluate emotional reactions to the person. Do you feel safe or threatened by them? Do you desire to be closer to the person? If they were upset with you, how would that make you feel?
6) Hypothosize that person's absence. How would there death affect you? How easy would it be to leave them?
7) If still unclear, find other criteria as love supplementally defined by you as an individual.
8) pass or fail; love or not.

The truth is, that I can fortunately simply go to my mother and ask her if I love her. I can ask myself. no proof greater than a simple query is needed.

You seem to think that proving something like this would be difficult. Make your point. You think that the bible or Christianity is so easily proven?

If so, then do it.

So are you saying that the examples you provide above consititute your criteria for proof?

1) Reproducable / Repeatbale
2) Tangable or observable
3) Uniform / No issues of continuity
4) Any assumption is stated as such and qualified
5) Any error in findings is explanable
6) Present tense

The truth is, that I can fortunately simply go to my mother and ask her if I love her. I can ask myself. no proof greater than a simple query is needed.

I Stereo wrote:

Neo - No it doesn't say that the seventh day has ended. But we certainly have had many literal days.

So what is it? Figurative speech? How is "7 days" figurative but "Rose from the dead" literal?

I need evidence, but first I need a clear stance from you.

OK, first read Genesis 2:4. I'll save you the trouble of looking it up:
"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."

This statement lumps together all the days of creation. Therefore, the term day cannot be literal. In fact, the seventh day not having ended would allow for at least 6000 years for each day, give or take.

You can read about Jesus' resurrection of Lazarus in the 11th chapter of John. Those folks reportedly saw him come to life after being dead for some time. Sounds literal to me.

Then simply accept that Christians choose to love God in the same manner that you describe with your Mom. If it's enough proof for you - why not them (us)?

Quote:

The truth is, that I can fortunately simply go to my mother and ask her if I love her. I can ask myself. no proof greater than a simple query is needed.

Your 'most important' example of proving an emotional issue is no more or less a choice (or series of choices). You ask your Mom - she tells you. She could be lying to you, she could 'love you' in a manner different than you expect or desire, etc. yet you know that she loves you just as I assume you choose to love her.

Then simply accept that Christians choose to love God in the same manner that you describe with your Mom. If it's enough proof for you - why not them (us)?

Brandon9000 wrote:

neologist wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

neologist wrote:

You can't provide empirical proof for or against any entity that exists outside of our perception of space and time such as the word supernatural implies. all you can do is provide anecdotal or circumstantial evidence which has to be evaluated according to personal standards.

So, if you could accurately post your personal standards, I might be able to provide you with evidence.

There certainly could be evidence. There could be cases in which numerous people saw the same visitation in modern times, things that can't be explained any other way, etc. Even on that level, you guys avoid logical presentation of evidence.

If you wish to have God make a special revelation for your sake, I don't think I can help you. If you wish to see God's spirit in operation, Jesus claimed that "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) So, if you could find that group, you may get a revelation. Possibly.

I didn't ask for a personal revelation. I said that if a supernatural being created the world and interacts with it, there ought to be some sign of it.

According to the reported words of Jesus, there is.

At least I think I said that.

neologist wrote:

I Stereo wrote:

Neo - No it doesn't say that the seventh day has ended. But we certainly have had many literal days.

So what is it? Figurative speech? How is "7 days" figurative but "Rose from the dead" literal?

I need evidence, but first I need a clear stance from you.

OK, first read Genesis 2:4. I'll save you the trouble of looking it up:
"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."

This statement lumps together all the days of creation. Therefore, the term day cannot be literal. In fact, the seventh day not having ended would allow for at least 6000 years for each day, give or take.

You can read about Jesus' resurrection of Lazarus in the 11th chapter of John. Those folks reportedly saw him come to life after being dead for some time. Sounds literal to me.

So let's suppose both of those are completely true and accurate. How do you decide if other things in the Bible that are ambiguous should be taken literally or figuratively?