Why would it be unwise to emphasize the bible's ambiguous nature?
Chumly wrote:Why would it be unwise to emphasize the bible's ambiguous nature?
No. All ambiguities need to be resolved. But, it would be unwise to quickly dismiss the bible because of perceived ambiguity.
Perceived ambiguity as opposed to absolute ambiguity?
Ambiguous relativism, the new tenet!
Whowouldathunkit........
quick answer- FAITH is all they need to justify something
longer answer- they are too unwilling to accept that their life isnt a divine creation and an act of random events. therefore any evidence that proves them wrong , is false because they have faith.
The reason they attack instead of answer?im gonna use a metaphor
in poker some people try to "buy the pot" when their hand is actually worthless, thats what i compare it too.they arent willing to let the pot get away from them, but they know their hand wont win so they try to force everyone to fold.
Chumly wrote:Perceived ambiguity as opposed to absolute ambiguity?
Ambiguous relativism, the new tenet!
Whowouldathunkit........
Absolute ambiguity? Sounds like a license to me.
Neo - Remember, ambiguity (of any varety) does not simply happen, it is a deliberate choice.
So the bible either is absolutley ambiguous, or it lacks needed detail. Precieved ambiguity is without meaning, it places the failure to understand on the reader, not the content.
Diest TKO wrote:Neo - Remember, ambiguity (of any varety) does not simply happen, it is a deliberate choice.
So the bible either is absolutley ambiguous, or it lacks needed detail. Precieved ambiguity is without meaning, it places the failure to understand on the reader, not the content.
Correct.
In fact, there is enough information in the first 3 chapters of the bible that, if read carefully, would give insight surpassing that of many who have spent years in the seminary.
neologist wrote:You can't provide empirical proof for or against any entity that exists outside of our perception of space and time such as the word supernatural implies. all you can do is provide anecdotal or circumstantial evidence which has to be evaluated according to personal standards.
So, if you could accurately post your personal standards, I might be able to provide you with evidence.
There certainly could be evidence. There could be cases in which numerous people saw the same visitation in modern times, things that can't be explained any other way, etc. Even on that level, you guys avoid logical presentation of evidence.
Re: Why Don't Christians ever present any evidence?
real life wrote:I Stereo wrote:Baddog1 - You misunderstand. I am referring to the fact that Christians never post any evidence to support their beliefs, all they do is try to dismantle other's arguements. I believe this is called an arguement from incredulty.
I'd like to see evidence to prove creationism, a great flood, jesus, etc. Further, I want evidence that isn't man made.
Neo - Can't prove or disprove God? The burden of proof falls on the people trying to prove god exists. And as far as I'm concerned, The criteria I'd use to prove for that is the amazing claims that would validate God in the form that has been claimed.
Prove God.
No, not if the supernatural really exists and causes effects in the world.
Are you asking for 'natural' (i.e. empirical or scientific) proof of the 'supernatural'?
Isn't that a bit like trying to smell a color , or trying to hear a photograph ?
eoe wrote:How about faith? That's what it's all about. Faith. A belief that all of us simply don't share. Will the day ever come when that's okay? My guess is never.
Faith cannot be proven or dissected and true faith cannot be shaken or stirred.
If there actually is a God who created the universe and interacts with it, there ought to be some sign of his existence. How can an immensely powerful being, in fact infinitely powerful, do things in the world without there being some sign that he has been around? A belief that can't be shaken no matter what is a delusion.
Re: Why Don't Christians ever present any evidence?
real life wrote:I Stereo wrote:Baddog1 - You misunderstand. I am referring to the fact that Christians never post any evidence to support their beliefs, all they do is try to dismantle other's arguements. I believe this is called an arguement from incredulty.
I'd like to see evidence to prove creationism, a great flood, jesus, etc. Further, I want evidence that isn't man made.
Neo - Can't prove or disprove God? The burden of proof falls on the people trying to prove god exists. And as far as I'm concerned, The criteria I'd use to prove for that is the amazing claims that would validate God in the form that has been claimed.
Prove God.
Are you asking for 'natural' (i.e. empirical or scientific) proof of the 'supernatural'?
Isn't that a bit like trying to smell a color , or trying to hear a photograph ?
Well, I messed this post up a couple of minutes ago, so I'll try again:
No, not if the supernatural really exists and causes effects in the world.
Brandon9000 wrote:neologist wrote:You can't provide empirical proof for or against any entity that exists outside of our perception of space and time such as the word supernatural implies. all you can do is provide anecdotal or circumstantial evidence which has to be evaluated according to personal standards.
So, if you could accurately post your personal standards, I might be able to provide you with evidence.
There certainly could be evidence. There could be cases in which numerous people saw the same visitation in modern times, things that can't be explained any other way, etc. Even on that level, you guys avoid logical presentation of evidence.
If you wish to have God make a special revelation for your sake, I don't think I can help you. If you wish to see God's spirit in operation, Jesus claimed that "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) So, if you could find that group, you
may get a revelation. Possibly.
Back to th original Question in this thread. Will someone provide evidence please? Support your claims with evidence.
Prove that Humans co-existed with dinosaurs, just prove something.
I Stereo wrote:Back to th original Question in this thread. Will someone provide evidence please? Support your claims with evidence.
Prove that Humans co-existed with dinosaurs, just prove something.
The bible doesn't claim that humans co existed with dinosaurs. As I have said before, atheists have no need to create straw men when priests supply them so abundantly.
Priest or no, If all the animals were created at the same time, then you are going to have to explain it regaurdless of it not explicitly stating so.
I Stereo wrote:Priest or no, If all the animals were created at the same time, then you are going to have to explain it regaurdless of it not explicitly stating so.
Nor does the Genesis account refer to seven 24 hour days. Sorry if someone tried to tell you that.
Neo - The Bible does not have the authority to define a day as anything else. Plus it is never stated that the 7 days are meant to be any but literal.
Becareful, the more you justify the bible as eing figurative / metaphorical, the harder you will be prssed to explain how ALL of those things are not meant to be taken literal but Jesus being resuredcted from death is supposed to be taken literal. You are going to have to chose sides; draw a line and state which side you are on.
You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
Nobody needs to tell be that the 7 days are supposed to be taken as anything but 168 hours. It's stated in the Bible, and it seems to be the wish of many Christians to create ambiguity that did not exist prior as to confuse others. If 7 days doesn't mean 7 days then what is the value of a day?
9,285,714,285.7142857142857142857143 days?
(That would be 65 billion divided by 7.)
You can't simply hide behind "a day is not 24hrs," because that is what a day is, and even if a day wasn't that, a day today is the same length as it was when the old testiment was written.
The world stins spins at the same rate friend.
I'm with you, Sterio. I tend to like proof of things before I wrap my life around it.
I was raised a catholic, but stopped living on faith and hope long ago when I realized that I was much more productive in life when I stopped hoping, took charge of my life and made the changes I needed to make to make it better.
Faith never got me anywhere but disappointed, when relying on myself got me everywhere.
