I'm new. Wanted some feedback on something.

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Hello. You all seem like a sharp, interesting group. I wanted to post to try to get your opinions about a point I've reached in my life. I am thirty, male, and I've been recovering from a very difficult childhood for many years now, and the fallout of abuse, basically, that has had a very negative effect on my ability to form intimate relationships. But I'm not looking for advice about how to overcome that personally, so don't worry.

I've been in therapy for years; I've posted in a more intense abuse forum for a long time; I've had a a lot of time to renegotiate my life with myself, etc. So, in other words, I am at the point where I am feeling kind of, for lack of a better term, normal.

I realize it is a little slippery using the word "normal", because I realize everyone, abused or not, has their own troubles and insecurities. But what I mean is, I don't feel so amazingly, awfully, anxiety-ridden and self-conscious, and destroyed, shattered, etc... as I used to be (I was a real wreck of a person for a long time. I had a panic disorder that lasted about three to four years, every day).

But, it's not all bad news. I'm much better these days. And that's just information I'm laying down as background so that you understand where I am now. I feel a lot more comfortable with myself, as a person, and I'm enjoying a life that is more about what I want, I suppose. I'm more comfortable around other people, as well, and I have a better sense of what I want out of life (well, sort of) than I used to have.

I suppose my question is more my fishing for stories about what it might have been/be like for anyone here who has been in a similiar situation? You started over from a somewhat disturbed or shattered past, or you are doing so now, and trying to speak to people who are a little healthier than you have been used to? Or you've already gone through this and you're in a relationship that works?

I admit that I've never really felt this way and it is strange, especially since I'm thirty and, while I realize this is not old age, sometimes I feel that my harsh early experiences arrested me a bit. There is shame there for me, being this old and having so much trouble just relaxing around other people, especially women; so, now I am kind of quiet, and I keep to myself. I mean, also, I am a bit boring these days. Going out and making a lot of noise just isn't in me anymore. I am kind of a slow mover and a slow talker and a slow reader, I have begun to like this. I like to take my time doing whatever it is I am doing, even if it is picking bananas at the store. I feel like I'm a very old man sometimes. There are times where someone will say something to me that is very normal and nice, and I'll just freeze, feeling like I'm about to cry. I suppose that's just the result of feeling so beat up for so long. I don't know. It doesn't exactly work wonders for your dating life. I feel much older than I am emotionally and in a sense of life experience, and much younger and immature in my social skills. What a mess.

Also, something else...In the past, obviously, I have had a habit of dating, or befriending people who were like me, I suppose, in their troubles with life. While I don't find this a real problem, necessarily, I am trying to begin a new pattern in my life, and sometimes, I've noticed, that I've felt an urge to try and find someone who didn't have all of the tortuous kind of experiences I had as a young person; not that I am against dating someone who has had the same kind of history it if it works and they have reached the cooling off period, as I have - or so I like to think. I am not really interested in being anyone's therapist, in other words, as I have been in the past. I guess I'm becoming a bit more interested in an equal sort of give and take, that's happier, and more future-oriented, with plenty of room to process the past, and talk about our past lives, of course...but not so trauma-laden. I would like to reprogram myself for that, and think that's all right. But sometimes it is hard to give myself permission to do this, being someone who was depended on as a sort of counselor by his mother as a child.

I don't know what I'm asking. Obviously, I'm stumbling around this subject. I am just wondering. Does anyone relate to this? Has anyone here been through this kind of thing? Or have anything to say at all about it? Have you been at this point and what did you do? How do you begin to start over like this? I don't even know what to do. My whole life I've lived in a sort of chaos, and now, I'm not in it, and I feel pretty lost without it. Typical, I guess...But I don't want to go back. I know that much. I want all of the things everyone wants...a life, a home with someone...something real...

Take care. It's been a pleasure reading your posts...

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Well, I don't really have the experiences you've had so I don't feel qualified to comment on them, but of course I want to welcome you to Able2know and I hope you'll be comfortable here. :-D

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I've been through different stages of hell in my own life, but somehow those experiences have made me stronger over the years. There were times where I felt lost and helpless, but I've overcome those feelings over time.

Welcome to A2K :-D

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Random polemics:

1) What doesn't kill us makes us strong. Most people never learn the lessons that you have, and are completely unprepared for life.

2) There's no such thing as "normal". It doesn't exist. What you have now is "experience", of your own flavor and kind.

3) Consider yourself fortunate. Many people don't learn lessons while they are living. If you are able to find someone to relate with, in a relationship that exercises real understanding and acknowlegement, then you will be part of the lucky minority.

4) Embarassment is phony. Indulge it only if it does something constructive for you.

5) Don't get used to having problems, or being around people who have problems. In the spirit of exploration, keep an open mind that understands that "normal" is just as acceptable as "tortured". Most of us are walking wounded, but that doesn't mean you have to be full of angst yourself. There is no obligation. It's okay to kick back and just enjoy. Take whatever joy you can, because that is life.

6) If you are real and genuine, plain and honest at thirty years old, I would consider that precocious.

Whether or not you find people to be with, enjoy. Life is too short to depend on other people's maturity, presence, and awareness.

Good luck.
I envy your resilience and fortitude.

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Thanks. That was helpful. Polemics are certainly welcome right now. A little self-pity is necessary, I think, to live, but I've been trapped in more than a healthy phase of it, I think, for quite a long time. So, your statements help.

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I had that background you wanted comments about. It has been difficult to have real trust in others for most of my life. I'm 57 now and only learned to have trust in someone after I met and married my wife 25+ years ago. My childhood has taken it's tole on me but I'm still around.

One difficulty that has remained with me is a spiritual understanding of the concept of "Family". I never really had one and, to this day, I still feel like I am on the outside peeping in a window when I watch my wife and her family interact.

Without a multitude of examples, while you are befriended those with problems, I preyed upon them. When I was young, I could spot them a mile away. That's how I survived during my childhood and adolescence. But, once again, that slowly began to change once I met Linda. I'm still working on issues and will probably be doing so the day I die. Your path is yours to pick.

I just happened to meet a strong willed woman who knew her mind and was more than willing to speak it. She was nevder in a mood to listen to a lot of BS and still doesn't. When you sit around most of your life actually believing that you're not worth **** and then wake up one morning and find that a woman of my wife's temperment is still at your side; It means a great deal.

As far as your "fishing for stories", the ones I have to tell have no real enlightening value, are often difficult for others to read and, likewise, are difficult for me to tell. I will say the, now in his 50's, my brother has finally engaged in a theraputic anger group. It took him a while but, he's gaining ground. When he tells stories, they accuse him of making them up; The reason? things like that just don't happen to kids. So much for gathering stories!

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I don't often check this forum ... so you're probably not familiar with me, Go Figure. First, a hearty welcome to A2K ... and if you have any questions about The Way Things Work around here, just click on any of the color-formated links down at the bottom of my posts ... especially the FAQ and the Help Forum.

Now, on to addressing your query, if I may (and bear in mind Free Advice is often worth the price you paid for it Laughing

) ...
One thing ya gotta do is figure out when its time to step back, say "Well, THAT didn't work" and try a different tack. The experiences you've had are what make you what you are, and you appear to be a thoughtful, sensitive, responsible person ... a rare breed indeed. That's likely got some to do with the difficulty you have finding kindred spirits ... there just plain ain't many of you folks around. But then, every one of us is an individual. A planet full of clones probably would be pretty uninteresting.
Lots of folks never develop a real sense of their own self worth simply because they insist on evaluating it in terms of their perception of the opinions of others. To my way of thinking, that's a dead end. You are the best YOU there is, and the only person you absolutely have to come to grips with every day is you. Its hard, but be honest with yourself. Pat yourself on the back when you deserve it, kick yourself in the butt when you deserve that. It ain't gonna get any better unless you LET it get better. I'd say quit looking for "The Perfect Relationship" ... that focus probably prevents you from being open to stumbling into a perfectly rerwarding, absolutely wonderful relationship. In fact, quit seeking relationships, period ... desperation shows, you know. Be your own best freind, and don't be surprised if somebody else out of the blue wants to join your club.

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GoFigure, have you experienced anger from your experiences? You speak of self pity, but not anger (at least I don't think you spoke of anger). You do have the right to be angry. And, you can channel all that anger into something you do well such as writing, art, a sport, music. You have done the work on yourself, maybe now you can reap the benefits from learning from your life (no easy feat).

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Thanks for the replies. Yes, I have experienced the anger, almost to an exhausting degree. As a result, my family is kind of afraid to open their mouths around me now (Not really a terrible thing. My family can be pretty obnoxious, as a group), because when I started really feeling what had happened to me, I raged for years at them, I suppose...for better or worse. I mean, I realize now that this was an essential part of getting over this stuff. But it made me kind of a lunatic for a while. I wasn't violent, but I certainly had the violent fantasies typical to this sort of history. So, yes. I went through all of that. Now, if there's anything left, it's less anger, and more simple sadness and hurt...confusion...hence, my post. The replies are nice though. Thank you.

And to the previous reply...Yeah, I am starting to realize that people who are a bit more aware of themselves as I've been forced into being (I don't think I would have necesssarily naturally been this way if I hadn't had to face myself so early) are kind of rare. Sure. I see that. Not that I think I'm some perfect gem, mind you. I am not an easy person, at times, and I have major moments of insensitivity and selfishness, as everyone does. And sometimes, I'm just mean and judgemental as hell...leftovers from a home that acted the same way, I suppose, and my own residual bitterness. But I am softening up a whole lot lately, and, as I do, I am starting to realize just how many people aren't capable of communicating with the people they are closest to, and aren't really capable of meeting me on a certain level which I want. But, as some have pointed out above, what is more important is that I have myself. That, I do have, I think, even if it is a new experience for me. I think that, if I just keep going and not worry about it, my life will live itself.

Thanks for you concern and words, though.

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GoFigure, I'm sorry I didn't welcome you to the site. Bad of me. Welcome! I think tmberlanko is correct in the basic assumption of assessing your self-worth, not in comparison to others, but, Nirvana is a nice place to be also. Right now, it seems that you have begun to view yourself and your past in some relational perspective and are examining how that relates to your present situation. I think that once you begin to go through the process of self evaluation, it leads to thoughts evaluating what is really importane in life. That's pretty heady styuff and not the topic of conversation in the break room. It's probable a better approach to meet people at their level and then slowly begin to move to a higher level in which discussions may be a little more intense or of greater value to you.

The group that you will meet in this forum tend to tackle things head-on and are pretty open about their feelings and opinions. That's why they are here; to discuss anything at what ever level it is presented. It's not "Real world". Not better or more lofty but, different. We're here to talk. A lot of people out there just don't talk. They just don't. It's sports, have a beer and, CSI is on tonight. On the other hand, we all need some of that also. For a lot of people talking is communicating. That's why consultants make a great deal of money presenting training seminars on interpersonal communication skills.

Also, once you begin the process of self-discovery, there is a real tendency to try have that level of conversation with others. You are ina process of picking your way through a whole new arena and it's both enlightening and a little disturbing at times. Beyond that, it's a pretty intense thought process. Don't expect others to rise to that level of intensity. Some won't and some can't. Some people just don't want to go there. At some point you'll encounter a couple of people that can rise to that level and are willing to share similar thoughts and ideas with you. Don't force it. You'll feel it when you meet them.

Family? Well, family is family and all the members have their own take on the world. I'm just now beginning to talk WITH my brother. My sister, well, we call one another every few years whether we need to or not!
Again, welcome and I pleased to meet you!

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GoFigure

The one point that I would like to make, and that I would like you to think about is this:

People with troubled, traumatic histories, even when they have more or less overcome them, tend to be left with a problem of pessimism.

Sometimes that pessimism is more on an emotional level, ie. they may SAY all the right things about being optimistic etc., but on a certain emotional level they may have a persistent sense of dread.

My advice: leave the door open to happiness and keep telling yourself: 'sometimes things turn out right.'

and how about:

'It's going to be a good day and I deserve it!'

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jjorge*197982* wrote:

People with troubled, traumatic histories, even when they have more or less overcome them, tend to be left with a problem of pessimism.

Sometimes that pessimism is more on an emotional level, ie. they may SAY all the right things about being optimistic etc., but on a certain emotional level they may have a persistent sense of dread.

'

Hi and welcome to A2k, GoFigure (not that I'm around that much, but I do like this forum very much)

I would change what jjorge had to say in one respect, and it comes from my own experience: troubled history seems to embed itself in a person's (actually, an entire family's) cells, and makes one vulnerable to depession and anxiety, to be dealt with through life. It's something that has to be worked around, and the more objective you are about the vulnerability, the less pessimistic you will be about your own life, and the harder you can fight through the bad times when they come. So many things can trigger it, especially family and intimate relationships.

Sometimes I just sigh and say to myself, oh brother here I go again, reacting, feeling bad, interpreting things in a negative way. But then another part of me, the part that got me through all the really bad times, steps back and I remind myself for the millionth time how lucky I am to be alive. Then I can see how much beauty there is around me, and for a while the bad feelings take a back seat.

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Yes. This is all good. I have been guilty of not seeing the world in a way that it is grateful and beautiful. When I say "grateful", I don't mean groveling and ignoring pain. But I certainly have kept myself down, believing that I can't do this or that, and that I am not deserving of this or that...all of the typical lies you tell yourself because they have been told to you in the past, implicitly or explicitly. But, when I want to, I can turn on
the vision that looks beyond my own personal traumas and allows for the whole of the world, and of life, to come into view...and, not to get to mushy here, but that kind of momentary seeing is quietly moving for me, always. no matter where I am, and it does relieve the pain a bit, not by stopping it, but by making the pain mean something beyond just pain. That's always nice for me.

But you're all right. People who've come from my situation have a tendency to forget that they are alive right now, and that things - no matter what has happened before - are beautiful in their own way right this very second. I need to turn that on more often. I know. Thanks for reminding me. It's good to be reminded of these things, even though I realize them deep down, of course. But, obviously, knowing it and living it are two different things. It's just growing up. In the end, it is up to the way you feel about it that creates your reality, or much of it. So terribly cliche, but seems to be a law of motion in life that I'm discovering.

Thanks.

J.R.

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GoFigure, welcome to A2K, I know you will enjoy this very addicting forum.

When you grow up in a dysfunctional home, and life is chaotic all of the time, it's very difficult to believe that chaos is not a way of life. It takes years of mentally training yourself to think "calm" when you awake each day.

But what was doesn't disappear just because we turn away from it.
We can actually cause ourselves self-esteem problems by dwelling on the various scars and bruises that life has given us. As if we are nothing more than the sum total of our injuries. We should never define ourselves by our wounds. To do so is to discount our true value and to disclaim the many benefits of health and happiness.

Yet the fear of hurt can hurt you more than anything. And if you avoid injury by sitting on the bench, you miss out on the game. When you are completely comfortable with yourself, knowing you are the person you want to be, then you will be open to new relationships, all kinds of relationships.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that is as you mature you will learn to like and love yourself, just the way you are.

I can remember thinking how tired I was, and this was when I was in my 40's, of living out the results of a dysfunctional home. I was fed up of wishing it had been different, and resenting the fact that I never had a childhood.

Then I can recall, suddenly one morning I woke up feeling "at peace" ... and the next morning, and the next, same thing. It then became a way of life, and I was no longer living in the shadow of my childhood, I was enjoying being me, and discovering new and likable character developments, and the rest is history.

I just want you to know, you are one of the fortunate ones who realize their potential, and who is now becoming more secure and more adept at being himself.

We are all a work in progress ... take heart!

Please keep us posted on your progress, we care!

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If you wait until you are completely comfortable with yourself and know you are the person you want to be to open new relatuionships, hell, you'll be in your late 70's.

Just try some new and varied relationships and tend to the other as you go. It will come to you though it usually isn't one of those "Eurika" moments. Life has a way of just turning pleasant as you work on it day by day.

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Misti26 wrote:

We should never define ourselves by our wounds. To do so is to discount our true value and to disclaim the many benefits of health and happiness.
We are all a work in progress ... take heart!

How right you are Misti. One of the biggest traps as a relatively young adult, as you are, GoFigure, is to define yourself by your wounds. Sometmes even therapy doesn't help if you're not challenged to reach beyond that.

I find Misti's reminder that we're all a work in progress very refreshing...and true, as long as you make it so.

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I'm new. Wanted some feedback on something.

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