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The truth is oozing out like a slime trail

 
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 05:10 pm
I guess the next question has to be what distraction will be created to draw the public's attention away from the lies mess.

Since I don't have TV news and views, I wonder what mainstream news channels have been saying about all this?
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cobalt
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 07:56 pm
BBB, Tartarin and all,
I thank you for your posts here. I've been at the same time thinking of what can empower citizens and information access keeps coming to the top of my priority list. Some of you may have heard there was a GIA (Government Information Awareness) project launched from MIT on the 4th of July to build links to sources of information about the various players of these deadly games. Here is the link to the GIA site:

http://opengov.media.mit.edu/
GIA

I don't believe there were discussions on forums that were about the Dept. of Homeland Security program called TIA - Total Information Awareness. Is anyone here familiar with where that stands?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 09:25 pm
TIA is allegedly fading out. But it may be that it is simply fading from view. Yes, there have been two threads (so far!) about the MIT program -- which wonderful and makes almost too much sense to be true! But it is true and one can participate, though I think they're still in beta.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 09:45 pm
Okay -- the CIA is beginning to square off against the White House on the 16 words flap. Good!



White House Releases Documents on Iraq Flap

By Ken Fireman and Knut Royce
Washington Bureau

July 19, 2003

Washington -- Seeking to blunt charges that it used flawed intelligence to buttress its case for war in Iraq, the White House Friday released an account of how a now-discredited assertion found its way into President George W. Bush's State of the Union speech that differed sharply from one given by the CIA.

It also released portions of a classified 2002 CIA "National Intelligence Estimate" on Iraqi weapons programs that concluded Saddam Hussein was trying to revive his nuclear weapons program -- but included a sharp dissent from the State Department.

In a briefing for reporters, a senior administration official also ruled out any testimony by White House staffers at hearings being held by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

The panel is attempting to determine how Bush came to assert in January that Iraq was seeking enriched uranium in Africa even though the CIA had raised serious questions about the claim months earlier and had gotten it deleted from a Bush speech in October. The White House acknowledged last week that the assertion should not have been included in the January address; documents purporting to detail an Iraqi attempt to buy uranium in the West African country of Niger were exposed in March as forgeries.

The senior administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, offered the most detailed account yet of how the African uranium claim made it into the January speech. The official contradicted Democratic charges that the White House had pressed to include the claim over CIA opposition and denied that the speech was rewritten to meet CIA complaints that an earlier draft was inaccurate.

The official said Bush speechwriters looking for concrete examples of Hussein's illicit weapons programs had latched onto the uranium claim because it was contained in the classified National Intelligence Estimate, as well as a public British document.

The official said the speechwriters initially had drafted a series of accusations about Iraqi weapons programs, including the African uranium charge, in the form of flat assertions. They later decided for stylistic reasons to attribute each accusation to a specific source; in the case of the uranium charge, they decided to attribute it to the British document because it was a public document, the official said. At no point did the draft ever include a reference to a specific African country, according to the official.

The proposed change was passed by Robert Joseph, an official with the White House National Security Council, to a CIA proliferations expert, Alan Foley, for review, the administration official said. Foley approved the change without any "protracted negotiation" or "a sharing of various language," said the official, who said his statement was based on Joseph's recollection of the conversation.

But Foley offered a sharply different account when he testified at a closed-door session of the Senate panel on Wednesday, according to a senior intelligence official familiar with the testimony.

Foley's recollection is that an early draft of the speech contained a reference to Niger and a specific amount of uranium that Iraq was supposedly seeking there, according to the intelligence official.

Foley expressed disquiet over that language because it might compromise intelligence-gathering methods as well as doubts about its reliability, the official said. Joseph suggested attributing the charge to the British; Foley reminded him that the CIA had urged the British not to include the accusation in their own intelligence document, but eventually signed off on the language with some reluctance, according to the intelligence official.

Told that the White House was saying Joseph and Foley discussed only attribution and not the credibility of the uranium charge, the official said: "That may be Mr. Joseph's recollection; it's not Mr. Foley's."

The excerpt of the National Intelligence Estimate released Friday concluded that Hussein's regime possessed illicit chemical and biological weapons and missiles and "if left unchecked ... will probably have a nuclear weapon during this decade."

It said that "in the view of most" U.S. intelligence agencies Hussein was reconstituting his nuclear program and cited attempts to obtain aluminum tubes for centrifuges, magnets, high-speed balancing machines and machine tools. The issue of African uranium was not cited as a key finding, but was mentioned later in the report with no judgment offered as to its veracity.

The estimate included a sharp dissent from the State Department's intelligence arm, which said it was unconvinced Iraq was pursuing "a coherent effort to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program." It questioned whether the equipment cited in the estimate was suitable for nuclear uses and called the claim of African uranium purchases "highly dubious."

http://www.nynewsday.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=nyc-uranium0719&section=%2Fnews
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 08:48 am
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 09:06 am
If I understand it correctly I think yellow cake is the basic product for any nuclear use of uranium. It is simply concentrated and purified uranium ore.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 09:08 am
Some of the most serious and telling things in anyone's life are the people they choose to hang out with, hire, support, be close friends with, do business with, etc. That's one of the aspects of Bush which I've found important in describing who he is. Chalabi always appeared to be one of the many examples of Bush's tendency to surround himself with sleaze -- top performing sleaze, but sleaze nonetheless.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 09:54 am
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 12:19 pm
The NYTimes has come up, about an hour ago, with a long, analytical report of which what follows is the final paragraph. A very thorough report on who said what when:


"Intelligence doesn't necessarily mean something is true," said Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at a Pentagon news briefing after major combat ended in Iraq. "You know, it's your best estimate of the situation. It doesn't mean it's a fact. I mean, that's not what intelligence is."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/20/international/worldspecial/20WEAP.html?ei=5062&en=28360ecb210885f6&ex=1059278400&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 12:38 pm
Cobalt - what I read (it was probably the NY Times but I don't remember) is that the TIA was simply not going to receive the funding, which effectively knocked it out of the box. There was also discussion about patriot II, but I know no more.

A lot of people had fully and hopefully expected that this story would be old, forgotten news by now. Up to now, the WH has been successful in clamping down on and hiding anything incriminating at all. Bu it looks like maybe the old fear factor isn't working so well anymore. Once people start allowing their names to be used as sources of information publically, the hide is off the horse.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 01:23 pm
PLEASE! No thousand dollar words; my dictionary is already over-used. c.i.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 01:54 pm
Mamaj -- I was trying to remember -- there was an article somewhere about TIA being renamed and reconstituted?
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 03:18 pm
Bush is blaming everyone (Rice & Fleischer) but himself
"President Bush chastised senior advisers, including National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and outgoing press spokesman Ari Fleischer, about the uranium intelligence flap and the White House's handling of it several times during the recent trip to Africa.

Spokesmen at the time initially said the White House was provided with bad intelligence from the CIA, only to reverse course a day later and claim the intelligence may still be valid although it should not have been included in a presidential speech.

"The president wanted the matter settled," one official said of Mr. Bush's harsh words for his advisers."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 03:25 pm
I said earlier in another forum that Ari left after adding two and two together, and realized what was happening. I really think more people are gonna be placing their resignation letters on the presidents desk in the not distant future. c.i.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 03:35 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I said earlier in another forum that Ari left after adding two and two together, and realized what was happening. I really think more people are gonna be placing their resignation letters on the presidents desk in the not distant future. c.i.


I wonder if, in a few years, we're going to get some George Stephanopolis-type tell-alls about the Shrubster's antics?
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JJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 03:43 pm
5 more years...amen to one and all!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 04:29 pm
Yeah, they're all gonna become political consultants to the media. c.i.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 04:31 pm
Here's a unrelated triva: When I took the family to NYC many, many, years ago, we went to see the very first David Letterman Show. As we were walking out, I told my family that this show has no chance of lasting more than a week. Smile c.i.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 04:55 pm
Ci
That was my first impression of the Letterman Show. I've never been able to sit through any of it.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 07:23 pm
I can't watch Letterman -- he's SO self-conscious. Agony!
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