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Is it grammatical?

 
 
J-B
 
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 06:41 am
"But if my dad had that one card, he won't ever know it."

The above-mentioned is a sentence choice found in my SAT prep book. After specifically pointing out the "tense error" in the original sentence, The explanation designated this "won't ever" as the right answer.
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Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 06:43 am
"won't ever" is wrong. It should be "wouldn't ever."
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 06:53 am
That is what I am thinking of... thank you^^
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 07:29 am
Are you sure, Roberta? What if the dad is dead? Then the sentence would work.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 09:27 am
Glad you got the answer, J-B. Welcome back.
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 05:54 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Are you sure, Roberta? What if the dad is dead? Then the sentence would work.


That's probably the case.

Yet, the original wrong sentence runs as thus
"But if my dad had that one card, he won't know it."

Is there a difference between "won't" and "won't ever". Is "won't" incompatible with the assumption that "dad is dead"?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 05:57 am
Shame on you, Gus. There's a time and place for silly jokes.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 10:42 am
Roberta wrote:
"won't ever" is wrong. It should be "wouldn't ever."


I don't believe that "won't ever" is wrong. Prove it!
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 11:53 am
stuh505 wrote:
Roberta wrote:
"won't ever" is wrong. It should be "wouldn't ever."


I don't believe that "won't ever" is wrong. Prove it!


The first phrase has an "if", so it's conditional. So you need to use "would" if that condition is met. So "wouldn't" is correct here.
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username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 11:58 am
I can't see it being "wouldn't". Assuming you're talking about card games, once the hands are folded and returned to the deck, if you didn't see the card, you're never going to know what it was, "it's an ongoing state of non-knowledge. "wouldn't' is a past tense form. "won't" is an ongoing tense form, so would seem to be more appropriate, cause your dad didn't know in the past, doesn't know now, and won't know in the future either.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 12:17 pm
I agree about the "if" being important.

If my dad had the card, he wouldn't ever know.

My dad had the card, but he won't ever know.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 03:24 pm
Well that's true. So we need to know more about the first sentence. Could you, J-B, quote the sentence before and the sentence following that one, to make the context clearer.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 04:13 pm
username wrote:
I can't see it being "wouldn't". Assuming you're talking about card games, once the hands are folded and returned to the deck, if you didn't see the card, you're never going to know what it was, "it's an ongoing state of non-knowledge. "wouldn't' is a past tense form. "won't" is an ongoing tense form, so would seem to be more appropriate, cause your dad didn't know in the past, doesn't know now, and won't know in the future either.


I agree with the conditional IF and WOULD and disagree that "wouldn't" is necessarily a past tense. "I wouldn't believe you if you told me you were 90 years old." That's not past tense. I think Soz has it correctly worded for both examples.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 05:52 pm
McTag wrote:
stuh505 wrote:
Roberta wrote:
"won't ever" is wrong. It should be "wouldn't ever."


I don't believe that "won't ever" is wrong. Prove it!


The first phrase has an "if", so it's conditional. So you need to use "would" if that condition is met. So "wouldn't" is correct here.


So according to y'all, the following sentence is invalid:

"If you take my books, I won't go to school."
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 06:43 pm
No, we're not saying you can't use "if" only with conditionals, but you do use them with conditionals... and upon further reflection, isn't "would" a future conditional of "will"?
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 08:04 pm
Mame wrote:
No, we're not saying you can't use "if" only with conditionals, but you do use them with conditionals... and upon further reflection, isn't "would" a future conditional of "will"?


That is not consistent with what McTag just said, and I don't see your point
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2007 11:17 pm
McTag wrote:
Well that's true. So we need to know more about the first sentence. Could you, J-B, quote the sentence before and the sentence following that one, to make the context clearer.


Sorry, I got a cold yesterday.

Quote:
(1) In one scene in a short story I recently read, the main character goes back in time and happens to bring a few gold pieces back to the present with him. (2) The gold pieces turn out to be incredibly valuable. (3) This short story reminded me of the baseball card collecting craze, it being an interesting facet of American pop culture. (4) Buying and saving baseball cards means spending very little money on something that might turn out to be worth big bucks in the future.
(5) My dad collected baseball cards when he was a kid, and no one back then thought they'd be worth anything. (6) Someone like my dad used up his allowance every week just because he wanted to collect all of his favorite players?-Roy Campanella, in my dad's case. (7) By dedicating the bulk of his weekly income to adding player after player to his collection, my father declared his dedication to the players.
(8) Baseball is a highly profitable sport, and so baseball card collecting has become one. (9) Everyone has heard of one baseball card in its original wrapping commanding an absurdly high price, and now everyone is positive that his or her shoebox filled with old baseball cards contains at least one card worth millions. (10) But if my dad had that one card, he won't know it. (11) Way before he realized it, his mother had gotten rid of them.

The sentence is numbered as 10. The whole passage is riddled with mistakes and if you bother to do a little quiz you click here

Quote:
5. Of the following, which best revises the underlined part of sentence 10, which is reproduced below?
But if my dad had that one card, he won't know it.
(A) card, they would never realize it.
(B) card; he would never realize it.
(C) card, how could he realize it?
(D) card, my dad won't ever realize it.
(E) card?-he never realized it.

What I choose as the answer is "(C) card, how could he realize it? ". I don't think "could" couldn't be used in conditional tense.

Quote:
5. The correct answer is D.
The main problem is tense. The first half of the sentence sets up a conditional sequence, but the verb is simple past tense: if my dad had and won't know it don't fit together correctly. Of the answers, only A and D solve this tense problem. But A introduces a new problem by creating a mismatched pronoun. The plural they cannot act as a pronoun for the singular my dad. That means choice D must be the right answer.

Seems it implies that "won't ever" is compatible with the general atmosphere of conditional tense...
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2007 01:02 am
I never knew learning English was this complicated.

But, hooray:

J-B's crazy textbook wrote:

5. The correct answer is D.
The main problem is tense. The first half of the sentence sets up a conditional sequence, but the verb is simple past tense: if my dad had and won't know it don't fit together correctly


which is what I said, more or less.
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2007 04:18 am
It shouldn't be, yet I don't want to be casual about everything in my life~~
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Apr, 2007 08:03 am
McTag wrote:
I never knew learning English was this complicated.

But, hooray:

J-B's crazy textbook wrote:

5. The correct answer is D.
The main problem is tense. The first half of the sentence sets up a conditional sequence, but the verb is simple past tense: if my dad had and won't know it don't fit together correctly


which is what I said, more or less.


No, this is the exact opposite of what you said, it says that "won't" is correct like I was saying, and you said "won't" is incorrect because of tense.
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