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Buddhists...what have they ever done for us?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 02:03 pm
Wow, this is good stuff, Ashers, Fresco and Asherman. It's SUCH a shame that RR and most people are so closed off to the general orientation you extend them. Thingness (especially as expressed in the self-object distinction), existence vs non-existence, and perhaps for our arithmetic activities, finite vs infinite are functional fictions (Fresco), useful for our mundane practical purposes but of no value for our spiritual needs. Indeed, Dualism is, while necessary for everyday purposes, the major counter force regarding spiritual health. And insofar as the Abrahamic religions (at least in their fundamentalist forms) are inherently dualistic they are anti-spiritual in their effects
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 03:23 pm
(Steve,

Maybe its the water ! .....Either that or the Boddingtons.... Interestingly Wittgenstein turned from engineering to philosophy whilst at Manchester Smile)
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 03:38 pm
JLN,

The "arithmetical" point rests on "nominal measurement" or "naming", which is the lowest level of measurement. This is clearly dualist because "naming" requires a namer/observer and forms the backdrop to a recent riposte I offered to Rex's reliance on biblical quotations:

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with man .
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 04:09 pm
Fresco, wow! general semantics in THE BIBLE?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:24 pm
Are you all done patting yourselves on the back?

Salvation is by grace not works.

You are so blinded by yourselves that you cannot see beyond you own selfish egotistical doctrines.

So one man comes back as a rock or a piece of dirt and one reaches nirvana all on a self glorifying trip where God is stripped of any credit of creating the eternal spirit within. They journey and boast over how illustrious they have become on their OWN ACCOUNT.

Buddhism became nearly extinct in Rome when Christianity came into the picture. Why?

Because Buddhism separated people into classes and divided them in the the stupid and the smart ones. Forget about inalienable rights for Buddhism has no concept whatsoever of "all men created equal"... That is a new testament concept... This is much in the same way that Mosaic law separated people by their pious works. Where people pointed fingers all as part of a kangaroo court of a political power struggle. He who is without sin cast the first stone... And who lost out with the law? The humble common man.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Comment: BUDDHA, THE ILLUSTRIOUS ONE AND HIS LOWLY NOBODIES...

Apparently you have accepted this apostasy lock stock and barrel without even scratching the surface and seeing the inequality that the Buddhist's system imposes on the general population.

You speak of democracy with your tongues but your hearts honor special interest. Self serving anarchy all for a grab of power that does not belong to you but to the providence of God and God ALONE..

Where the final result is far from unity and peace but separation and pure ego of others. Nothing but boastful self important tyrants towering over their inferior "subjects". where people follow a man out of self devaluation. Just as Jesus' brethren followed him due to the lack of the availability at the time of the GIFT of the HOLY spirit because the law had not been fulfilled yet. This is the HOLY spirit (of GOD) that leveled the playing field from the division that the law produced.

Where Jesus called his disciples "brothers" and Buddha called his followers subjects. Subject to his high calling that superseded that of the regular Joe.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Comment: Where Christianity proclaimed that divinity is a God given right and not something that we earn or WORK for out of our own. Even the mind becomes transformed into the mind of Christ and not the old mind nature of the believer and self.

For shame on you all for glorifying your own atheist agendas over the TRUTH which requires honesty and humility. Virtue that seems nearly non existent in your inferior system of self glorification.

You know the truth but you are so political and self serving that if you were to give God the credit for your own divinity it would seemingly make you physically ill.

I can acknowledge, I see what you are saying and it stinks worse with every proceeding word.

You are trying to take the world back into the dark ages where clergy stand above the common man as Buddha towered above the his subjects all out of a self ego trip that he looked to the outer person instead of the inner gift and providence of the creator. The New testament does away with priests and those who think themselves better than their neighbor.

Even Christianity has been usurped by your own idolatrous kind. The UNHOLY trinity which lowers God to the level of man (his creation).

You have simply only convinced me even moreso that you are all as fake and phony as someone either deceiving themselves or acting deceptively for the sake of pure misinformation.

If you are looking for respect you are losing my respect for you with every post you dig yourself in deeper into the muck of a cast system based upon who barks the loudest.

Did Buddha WORK his way to divinity or was his divinity based upon the gift of God given in the same measure to all who believe saint and sinner alike?

The purpose of the gift of God is to help the sinner while still in the state of sin with power to prevail over darkness. Contrarily the Buddhist rejects the help of God for their own power trip as if OUR power could transcend sins against God.

In my opinion neither nirvana nor an illustrious state of being are achievable whatsoever through Buddhism. Buddhism is merely a self delusion which those who seek vain glory are attracted to.

This does not say much for you...

Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Comment: Vain in their self worship.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Comment: This is why Christianity took Rome by storm leaving Buddhism and all other inferior forms of self idolatrous worship in the dust.

This is the word of God not the word of RexRed. If it were not for the word of God you would all be my subjects!

You can thank the word of God for teaching ME that YOU are all my brothers and not inferior to my own self proclaimed divinity. Through Buddhism a person like me would have used it to elevate myself over you all. Instead I have humbled myself before you as I have also humbled myself to the divine creator of all that we surevey. How can Buddhism promote humility when it is all about self achievement over any other greater concern or cause.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the [same] measure of faith.

Matthew 18:4
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord[God], and he shall lift you up.

Comment: You seriously call humility inferior to a proud and boastful illustrious self proclaimed divinity? HOGWASH!

If you can't see that then there is little hope for you are too far gone. One day these words will come back upon your own folly and prove to you the grievous error of these idolatrous ways.

Harsh words... but true and spoken from the heart in all honesty and faithful compassion.
0 Replies
 
YOOPERNEWSMAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:41 pm
Buddhists Join Other Faiths to Protect Your Drinking Water
This is a reply to what have Buddhists done - in northern Michigan the members of the Lake Superior Zendo Temple joined with 140 other churches/temples in a major Earth Day 2007 Pharmaceutical Clean Sweep (I am a news reporter and volunteer media advisor for the Earth Keeper Initiative).
--
Northern Michigan Zen Buddhists Help Turn In Tens of Thousands of Pharmaceuticals Weighing Over One Ton

Narcotics Have Estimated Street Value of $500,000


(Marquette, Michigan) - Northern Michigan Zen Buddhists helped turn in tens of thousands of pills plus narcotics with an estimated street value of half a million dollars during the third annual Earth Keeper Clean Sweep.

Over one ton of medicines and personal care products were turned in by the public during the 2007 Pharmaceutical Clean Sweep, said Carl Lindquist, executive director of the Superior Watershed Partnership.

The "controlled substances" turned in have an estimated street value of $500,000 including narcotics in pill and liquid form, clean sweep organizers said.

"We had a great public turnout, a lot of people showed up with old medications," said Lindquist said.

For the third year in a row, northern Michigan Zen Buddhists volunteered at the Grace United Methodist Church in Marquette.

Lake Superior Zendo head priest Paul Lehmberg said it is "the beginning of a tradition and it felt good to be back there on Earth Day" with UMC Rev. Charlie West and "his hospitable crew doing something for the earth and raising consciousness about yet another hazard that is degrading and poisoning our environment."

Quote:
"Each year during the clean sweeps, I see wider involvement and more publicity, and each year I see more evidence of young people participating, which is absolutely a necessity over the long haul," said Reverend Tesshin Paul Lehmberg, leader of the Lake Superior Zendo - a Marquette Zen Buddhist temple.


The EPA is funding the collection of pharmaceuticals and personal care products because trace amounts of chemicals from those substances are turning up in America's drinking water because many treatment plants are not designed to remove the dangerous chemicals.

The clean sweep was sponsored by nine faith communities, the Superior Watershed Partnership, the Cedar Tree Institute, and the Keweenaw Bay Indian Community.

About 2,000 people turned in items but many had collected pharmaceuticals from family and friends, organizers said.

Assistance was provided by the Michigan Pharmacists Association and numerous law enforcement agencies including the DEA and Michigan Sheriff's Association, Lindquist said.

The annual Earth Day project involves over 140 churches and temples (Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, United Methodist Church (UMC), Unitarian Universalist, Baha'i, Jewish, and Zen Buddhist).

Rev. Lehmberg said his 15-year-old daughter, Freya, and Rev. West's 13-year-old son, Christopher, were excited to volunteer.

Quote:
"We're passing along our enthusiasms, and our worry" over the environmental condition of the earth and that youth concern for nature and involvement is essential to the future of the planet, Rev. Lehmberg said.


"The pharmacists brought knowledge of all the things we collect, the law officers praised us for getting these drugs in a secure place and out of the potential of being abused," said Michael Rotter, a senior majoring in botany.

Quote:
"The amazing thing about the clean sweep, is me being a 21-year-old Buddhist college kid can sit down and talk to a 30 year old pharmacist father and we can both relate to the 50-year-old Methodist pastor," Rotter said.


"As we heal and cleanse the Earth, we are also healing the human heart," said Lutheran Rev. Jon Magnuson, Earth Keeper Initiative founder.

UMC Earth Keeper Rev. Charlie West said that the Zen Buddhist Earth Keepers and his church members "felt really good about providing this service for the community."

"These chemicals should not be loose in the creation - we're glad they will be disposed of carefully," said Rev. West of the Grace UMC in Marquette.

Financial sponsors again this year include the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and $15,000 from Thrivent Financial for Lutherans, a not-for-profit financial services membership organization and fraternal benefit society.

Quote:
"We are in trouble with the way we live with the Earth" but the clean sweeps are humans correcting man-made problems, said Rev. Magnuson, co-organizer of the clean sweeps and the head of Lutheran Campus Ministry at NMU.


The pharmaceuticals will be taken to an EPA-licensed incinerator near St. Louis, Missouri.

Quote:
"From the EPA's prospective this is an ideal approach for grassroots community members and the faith-based community to work with the federal government, American Indians and others to achieve environmental gain," said John Perrecone of the Midwestern Region office of EPA located in Chicago who visited collection sites.
EDIT: MODERATOR: DO NOT POST YOUR LINKS HERE
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:51 pm
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form [image]of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God [in image]: 7 But made himself of no reputation [unlike Buddha], and took upon him the form [image] of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Comment: We are exalted likewise within the body of Christ when we put on the mind of Christ. That through his [Christ Jesus'] attributes of humility and obedient service to God we are saved.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:19 pm
People of 140 faiths participate in the collection of these harmful items but the Zen Buddhists get the LARGE HEADLINE? That is because other people don't count... (caste system)

Maybe the Zen Buddhists were given such a high mention because their participation was such a surprise that is with their busy self hypnosis schedules and all.

(like San Franciscan's who think they are above everyone else on the planet. Due to the same self worship dogma.)

What was the proportion of Zen Buddhists compared to other faith based denominations who participated? .5%?

The article seems to leave out that point. Did the little league team help and also the local chapter of Girl Scouts?

What was the motivation of the Zen Buddhists to stop the drugs from entering their own water supply and exposing them into a drug induced state of nirvana where the Christian motivation was to honor God by cleaning up his earth he created for us and future God loving people to occupy?

If there was a consistent level of life altering truth in Buddhism I would be the first to hitch a ride.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:57 pm
Rex,

Your prejudices coupled with your willful ignorance of our religion is more pitiful than anything. So far as anyone knows there were no Buddhists in ancient Rome, though Buddhism and Hellenic Greece had a nodding acquaintance after Alexander went East. Christianity is not only religion that has important things to say about the human condition and our relationship with the Universal. The more I'm exposed to your narrow-mindedness, the less hope I have for you. Your fixation on your own concepts about religion is a dangerous thing that gives rise to fanatic idealism. Oh how close you seem to be to the Radical Islamic Movement in your obsession.

Chill out or you'll end up chocking on your own bile.

BTW, I tend to agree with you that the Buddhist community got more credit than they seemed entitled to in the news post above. Thats the press for you, anything to grab a few more readers. Reporters seldom get more that the outline of a story, and then they invariably screw up most of it. Then the editors take their blue pencils and what reaches the world sometimes has only a passing resemblance to what actually happened.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 12:10 am
Asherman wrote:
Rex,

Your prejudices coupled with your willful ignorance of our religion is more pitiful than anything. So far as anyone knows there were no Buddhists in ancient Rome, though Buddhism and Hellenic Greece had a nodding acquaintance after Alexander went East. Christianity is not only religion that has important things to say about the human condition and our relationship with the Universal. The more I'm exposed to your narrow-mindedness, the less hope I have for you. Your fixation on your own concepts about religion is a dangerous thing that gives rise to fanatic idealism. Oh how close you seem to be to the Radical Islamic Movement in your obsession.

Chill out or you'll end up chocking on your own bile.


WHAT ABOUT YOUR PREJUDICE FOR CHRISTIANS?????? (as unfortunately misguided as many of them are)

Also many legitimate religious scholars believe Gnosticism has it's roots in Buddhism... Because of the same worship of knowledge "over God"... Also Buddhism (as we know it) was influenced by the Greeks. Excavations show that the portrait of Buddha that we have today came from the silk route and not necessarily China.

Before you point a finger at me you might take a look at the illegitimacy in your "own" back yard....

I have nothing against Buddhists but I find their religion empty and devoid of MOST vital truths...

I am not attacking "people" but their system of belief... but you have certainly attacked ME with your own "bile"... This is an indicative shew of the weakness of these said doctrines and prophets.

Mt 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Comment: You have not addressed any of my gripes with this egotistical religion. I on the other hand have made my points ABUNDANTLY clear..

So I must infer from this that you are just trying to "push" your ideas on people without any sound logical doctrinal considerations to back them up. At least not up to the standards of the New Testament.

It doesn't work with me... I am wise to these selfish ideologies.

It is the Bible that has enlightened me of this truth. I wouldn't trade places with you for all the tea in China. I implore you to take a second look...

You are comparing me with radical Islam? It seems that at least Islam recognizes something other than the selfish will of the individual.

That makes the least believer in Islam on their worst day more respectful of God than the greatest of Buddhists on their best day. ARE YOU PROUD OF THAT?

That puts you on par with despots and kings who make edicts to be worshiped as "gods" themselves. And this Buddhist's religion opens the door for that kind of behavior.

All out of the denial of the "CREATOR" contrarily for the veneration of self above all other considerations...

You have not acknowledged the numerous points I have made so truth my friend is apparently not your goal... Again selfishness and greed motivate. This kind of thinking is the fruit of the Buddhist religion...

Dog eat dog as long as I make to the top it doesn't matter who I step on along the way...

How about a little "HONESTY"???

Or go ahead and bow down to your OWN image... See where it gets you...

Sincerity and a dollar gets you a bad cup of coffee.

It must irk you to no end to realize Buddhism in essence cannot even hold a candle to the faith of Jesus Christ.

Mark 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me

Comment: Buddha's doctrine was HIS OWN...

Big Contrast... Very revealing...

BTW I thought I might have been out on a limb accusing the press of fudging the news I appreciate your candor in affirming my suspicions. I also think it is nice that the Zen Buddhists helped out on such a worthy endeavor.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 02:32 am
BTW Rex,

You keep talking about "salvation".

Why does that "you" or any other "self" for that matter need "saving" ?.....saving from what ?
0 Replies
 
YOOPERNEWSMAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 04:19 am
Rex you assumed wrong - again
Rex,

I merely gave you a look at our Buddhist Press Release - I did a release for each of the faith communities (search on the internet using the obvious keywords and you'll find hundreds of articles involving the other faith communities in our project).

It's not wise to assume.

The reason I decided to post the Buddhist release was because of the prejudice that started this discussion - although I suspect the true motivation was shock value - as no rational person in this day and age can truly harbor this much true contempt verging on hatred and supposedly justified with such weak arguments.

However if the prejudice is true - I forgive you - Rex for prehistoric thinking - as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss."

By the way, I also did seven other versions of the press release including for the American Indian media, university media - and for others. Our Earth Keeper project has a wonderful mixture of faiths, backgrounds and interests.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:48 am
Re: Rex you assumed wrong - again
YOOPERNEWSMAN wrote:
Rex,

I merely gave you a look at our Buddhist Press Release - I did a release for each of the faith communities (search on the internet using the obvious keywords and you'll find hundreds of articles involving the other faith communities in our project).

It's not wise to assume.

The reason I decided to post the Buddhist release was because of the prejudice that started this discussion - although I suspect the true motivation was shock value - as no rational person in this day and age can truly harbor this much true contempt verging on hatred and supposedly justified with such weak arguments.

However if the prejudice is true - I forgive you - Rex for prehistoric thinking - as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss."

By the way, I also did seven other versions of the press release including for the American Indian media, university media - and for others. Our Earth Keeper project has a wonderful mixture of faiths, backgrounds and interests.


Did you send an article also to the overwhelming majority of these people who were Christians? OR was your purpose only the minorities? To slight the Christians of their contribution by magnifying "anything but" the Christian initiative? Was it not the Christians who solicited the help of these other groups? Was the entire drive also conceived by a Christian through the prudence of their living God??

How about recognizing a prehistoric faith that honors selfishness over simple concept of creator?

You are furthering what is wrong with this culture... The ME generation that cannot see past their own gripes. They have no God to discipline them. They go and shoots up schools and their work places because the God of peace has been stolen from them by erroneous doctrines that rip them off of the comfort and peace that only a "loving" God can provide the soul...

Again I do not hate people I am repulsed by many of their belief systems that negatively motivate them.

These Zen Buddhists are only following in the motions of other faith initiatives like a marionette on a string. They have no motivating factor of their own other than getting themselves in the news and trying to make themselves seem more important than generality. These Buddhists stand shoulder to shoulder with all of the other self worshiping groups. The truth hurts doesn't it? I would jump ship if I were you...

How about if they write the news to themselves without slanting it to fit the delusion they they are actually bearers of some truth that deserves recognition.

ZEN BUDDHISTS ASSIST IN CHRISTIAN INITIATIVE...

That would be the truth of the matter.

I dislike Buddhism even more than I do paganism.

For even a pagan may occasionally say a prayer to the "unknown God"...
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:54 am
Rex,

Your efforts to denigrate Buddhism is OFFENSIVE. Before you go off spouting nonsense, you should at least spend some time learning about the subject. Even if you only read the many postings dealing with Buddhism here at A2K, you will be less ignorant. Isn't that a worthy goal, to increase one's knowledge?

You accuse me of being prejudiced against Christians. Well, I know a great deal about the Abrahamic religions. I was raised a Christian, and have read the Bible a few times myself. As a student of history, I'm well aware of how the Abrahamic religions fit into the flow of human history. I am a religious person, and am the first to say that there are things to learn and value in all religions. How about you meet me half way. Study other religions and give them credit for what they are rather than rushing to condemn.

How would you know what religious scholars believe, since you only credit those who agree with your extreme views. Yes, Buddhism may have at some small impact on Gnosticism, but the fundamentals of Buddhism and Gnosticism are quiet different. Buddhism had virtually no iconography for over two hundred years. Hellenic Greek statuary (circa 300 BCE) became a model for Buddhist statuary during Alexander's march to the East. Buddhist iconography isn't intended to be worshiped per se, but as a visual means of teaching doctrines to illiterates, and to satisfy the perceived needs of people.

It seems you expect the rest of us to prove the legitimacy of our religion by reference to your religion's Bible. That can't be done, because the foundations of the two religions are very different. How would you like to try proving that Christianity is the only true religion only by reference to Buddhist scriptures? Of course, first you would have to learn something about Buddhism and that is beyond you. How about you trying to prove the absolute truth of Christianity, but without a single reference to any version of the Bible? Take either path, and there may be some value in discussing religion with you ... otherwise, you just aren't worth the time and effort.

Newsman,

Its nice to hear that you issued a number of press releases, each aimed at a minority religious grouping. We are so often overlooked by the media whose bread and butter is the established churches.

Still, and no offense intended, my experience has been to suspect and discount almost everything that appears in the news. Somewhere "news" stopped being a fact driven process consciously devoid of editorial comment and heavily weighted language. That style of news, though still not a complete description of events, I suppose was too boring to attract a mass audience. News is a hungry beast and editors have book-sized publications to fill every day, so stories have to expand to fill the space and appeal to public sentiment. Its not a matter of some dark conspiracy, but the overall effect is to taint reports. If we strip away all the dross from the 199 page morning newspaper, we end up with maybe enough actual news to fill a dozen pages. The same proportions apply to small newspapers, though they at least deliver the news of local interest. The electronic news is even worse, and more invidious because the audience is only shown short sequences of dramatic film footage.

Anyway, welcome A2K. I'm sure you will find much here to bring you back often.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:57 am
fresco wrote:
BTW Rex,

You keep talking about "salvation".

Why does that "you" or any other "self" for that matter need "saving" ?.....saving from what ?


We need saving from ourselves...


Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:07 am
Asherman

How "offensive" do you think Buddhism is to God?
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:10 am
Establish the existence of your concept of god without reference to your biblical scriptures, and I'll answer that. Shucks, just give us a rational non-scripture based argument for the "probable" existence of your concept of God.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:22 am
Asherman wrote:
Establish the existence of your concept of god without reference to your biblical scriptures, and I'll answer that. Shucks, just give us a rational non-scripture based argument for the "probable" existence of your concept of God.

You don't see your own existence as the providence of a greater cosmic force?

That is the problem you seem to not care to see beyond your own self. Your doctrine forbids it. Your doctrine stands against all that God stands for.

Your quest to find God must begin within your own heart and conscience.

I can only point the way...

God reveals himself only to those who honor him in meekness, humility and simple belief.

I am not saying that Christians, in the state they are in today, represent a "loving" God any more than Buddhists...

The whole entire ball of wax needs a face lift. I am just pointing out that Buddhists are not immune to the "spiritual" problems that beset this great country of ours...
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:25 am
Asherman, you've got unbelievable patience. The way you can keep logically answering that preaching loser is incredible.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:34 am
Shooter open fires in a church...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274013,00.html
0 Replies
 
 

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