Wilso wrote:Asherman, you've got unbelievable patience. The way you can keep logically answering that preaching loser is incredible.
Preaching loser? If I am a loser than you are the dung on my shoes.
Time will tell...
... but only Rex still clings to the true god.
Buddhism, for the thousandth time, regards "existence" as illusory, not real. There is no "self", "soul", or multiplicity in Ultimate Reality. Our conception is that Ultimate Reality, God if you please, is infinite and indivisible ... all of perceptual reality are mere expressions of "God". Ultimate Reality, God, is without form, or consciousness in human terms ... It just is. The illusion of space, time (change) and all of existence is merely a "thought" of Ultimate Reality that encompasses an infinite number of perceptual realities. Nothing exists apart from Ultimate Reality. The Abrahamic "god" is a creation of Ultimate Reality.
Suffering is the product of mistaking the illusion for reality. Multiplicity and ego are both the product of illusion, and suffering is the result. Humans are driven by desire, and the desire can never be totally free from suffering. We live in a dream world, and must conform to the "rules" of the illusion, but in recognizing the falsity of perception we can can think, speak and act in ways that minimizes suffering. That is the great task before Buddhists everywhere; the mitigation of suffering.
Though Rex would deny it, he is driven by his own demons. He seeks to relieve his own suffering, by an unwavering commitment to a radical interpretation of Christianity. His position is no different than that taken by the Radical Islamic Movement; "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". "Don't bother me", they say, "with questions or rational objections. My way, or the highway to hell. I'm doing you a favor by converting you from your heathen belief".
We try to pry open his mind, just the tinest bit to the possibility that other religions are just as valid as his own. Success is very unlikely, but we have to give it a fair try anyway. Pity the lad, and hope that sometime he will be ready to cast off his demons.
Asherman wrote:... but only Rex still clings to the true god.
Buddhism, for the thousandth time, regards "existence" as illusory, not real. There is no "self", "soul", or multiplicity in Ultimate Reality. Our conception is that Ultimate Reality, God if you please, is infinite and indivisible ... all of perceptual reality are mere expressions of "God". Ultimate Reality, God, is without form, or consciousness in human terms ... It just is. The illusion of space, time (change) and all of existence is merely a "thought" of Ultimate Reality that encompasses an infinite number of perceptual realities. Nothing exists apart from Ultimate Reality. The Abrahamic "god" is a creation of Ultimate Reality.
Suffering is the product of mistaking the illusion for reality. Multiplicity and ego are both the product of illusion, and suffering is the result. Humans are driven by desire, and the desire can never be totally free from suffering. We live in a dream world, and must conform to the "rules" of the illusion, but in recognizing the falsity of perception we can can think, speak and act in ways that minimizes suffering. That is the great task before Buddhists everywhere; the mitigation of suffering.
Proverbs 4:19
The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
Rex, the simple fact is, that Buddhists are better than christians. They accept all faiths, while you lot spit on anyone who doesn't accept your blind belief. I'm nowhere near as intolerant in real life as I am on these boards, but in real life I don't have to deal with militant extremists like you. And I'm married to a Buddhist, so I know what wonderful people they are.
Asherman wrote:Though Rex would deny it, he is driven by his own demons. He seeks to relieve his own suffering, by an unwavering commitment to a radical interpretation of Christianity. His position is no different than that taken by the Radical Islamic Movement; "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". "Don't bother me", they say, "with questions or rational objections. My way, or the highway to hell. I'm doing you a favor by converting you from your heathen belief".
We try to pry open his mind, just the tinest bit to the possibility that other religions are just as valid as his own. Success is very unlikely, but we have to give it a fair try anyway. Pity the lad, and hope that sometime he will be ready to cast off his demons.
What about my patience?
I already have the truth in my own mind why stop and help others?
I praise Mohamed because he brought "Christ" to the tribes of Persia and the surrounding regions.
I find just as many errors in today's Islam as I do in today's Christianity.
Yet I am here to reason not in pious supremacy but humble service to the almighty God of all ages.
Rex,
Quoting your scriptures is pointless when discussing religion with people who don't accept it in the same way you do. If you can only discuss things by reference to your scriptures, you first have to convince us all that your scriptures are indeed the infallible and perfect expression of Ultimate Reality, what I suppose you would call "God". One of the problems here, is that your conception of "God" is so very different from the conception of "God" in other religions. Why should we accept your conception(s) as being any better or more true than the conceptions of our own religion?
Tell me please, why I should devote time and effort to you, if you refuse to even consider that my religion, Buddhism, might be just as valid as your own religion?
Wilso wrote:Rex, the simple fact is, that Buddhists are better than christians. They accept all faiths, while you lot spit on anyone who doesn't accept your blind belief. I'm nowhere near as intolerant in real life as I am on these boards, but in real life I don't have to deal with militant extremists like you. And I'm married to a Buddhist, so I know what wonderful people they are.
I don't spit on ANYBODY! I object to the belief systems just as you might object to the doctrines of a suicide bomber...
So you have cotton in your ears or are you just selectively ingesting what you want to hear?
Asherman wrote:Rex,
Quoting your scriptures is pointless when discussing religion with people who don't accept it in the same way you do. If you can only discuss things by reference to your scriptures, you first have to convince us all that your scriptures are indeed the infallible and perfect expression of Ultimate Reality, what I suppose you would call "God". One of the problems here, is that your conception of "God" is so very different from the conception of "God" in other religions. Why should we accept your conception(s) as being any better or more true than the conceptions of our own religion?
Tell me please, why I should devote time and effort to you, if you refuse to even consider that my religion, Buddhism, might be just as valid as your own religion?
The scriptures that I quote are only to show that what I believe in scripturally sound and not as many other Christian doctrines being based on personal opinion or traditions only...
I am willing to listen and try my best to understand Asherman but you have not addressed any of my points which are certainly numerous.
Address this single point.
Do you really think a solely self motivated approach is better than an approach to life that includes the probability that we as humans are not the only concern in this world? That we simply put on the blinders just because the Buddhists tell us to?
Close you eyes Asherman for a moment.
Now open them.
Wilso,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but Buddhists are still people. We are still vulnerable to chasing our desires, we still have to deal with egotism, lust, greed, anger and a multitude of other emotions that all end up in causing suffering for ourselves and others. Not even the Dali Lama is immune to thinking, speaking and acting in ways that cause suffering; of course, he's pretty good and is an excellent model for us all.
Don't let Rex get under your skin, that will only increase your own suffering and he will go on hurting himself and others. Let it go. If I had any sense, I'd probably ignor the lad. Oh well ....
Asherman wrote:Wilso,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but Buddhists are still people. We are still vulnerable to chasing our desires, we still have to deal with egotism, lust, greed, anger and a multitude of other emotions that all end up in causing suffering for ourselves and others. Not even the Dali Lama is immune to thinking, speaking and acting in ways that cause suffering; of course, he's pretty good and is an excellent model for us all.
Don't let Rex get under your skin, that will only increase your own suffering and he will go on hurting himself and others. Let it go. If I had any sense, I'd probably ignor the lad. Oh well ....
I certainly have respect for you Asherman. I think you are a caring and loving Christian whose mind has been led astray...
"Address this single point.
Do you really think a solely self motivated approach is better than an approach to life that includes the probability that we as humans are not the only concern in this world? That we simply put on the blinders just because the Buddhists tell us to?"
No, I do not think that placing the "self" at the center of the world is good, nor is it correct. "Self" is illusory, as are all of the phenomena of the perceptual world. The ultimate goal, the only way to truly conquer suffering is to totaly merge into the Infinite and indivisible, the Ultimate Reality from which illusion arises. The rest of your "question/point" is a mere pejorative attack on my religion, and isn't worthy of comment.
Asherman wrote:"Address this single point.
Do you really think a solely self motivated approach is better than an approach to life that includes the probability that we as humans are not the only concern in this world? That we simply put on the blinders just because the Buddhists tell us to?"
No, I do not think that placing the "self" at the center of the world is good, nor is it correct. "Self" is illusory, as are all of the phenomena of the perceptual world. The ultimate goal, the only way to truly conquer suffering is to totaly merge into the Infinite and indivisible, the Ultimate Reality from which illusion arises. The rest of your "question/point" is a mere pejorative attack on my religion, and isn't worthy of comment.
I halfway sort of agree but it is too murky.
The lines need to be clearly and simply defined between "creation and creator"...
Without a clearly drawn lines between Giver and gift the admonition and worship that all humans desire eventually and by nature turns back upon itself.
There is no creator, nor creation as separate "things", both are illusory. Dualism is false. If you respect me, then why insult me and attack my religious beliefs?
Asherman wrote:There is no creater, nor creation as separte "things", both are illusory. Dualism is false.
Dualism exists...
How?
It is dualism that provides contrast.
Without dualism evil would be equal to good. This is simply not so.
I believe that creation is part of the creator but the creator ALSO resides in a realm outside creation. (I am sure you know this about my beliefs anyway.)
If the creator was not outside of creation then we as creation could achieve the status of creator. This again is the process of the true worship of God erroneously turning back and becoming again the worship of the self...
An "image" is only a likeness of or resemblance the true object it represents. This is the illusion of life and self proclaimed Godhood. This image of life as we know it is only caricature of the realm of the eternal kingdom of God.
You Buddhists are master debaters...
We are in fundamental disagreement over the reality of dualism. Fundamental Reality is indivisible and infinite. Sorry, but I have to go and attend to the illusion of low blood sugar. LOL
No, but we are constantly trying to reduce the effects of suffering within perceptive reality.
