Physician, Heal Your Damn Self

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

well Paris Hilton IS a slut

Is she? Or has she just been branded one by the media?

Quote:

... Kistie Alley is or was a huge fat load...I don't think Set is making fun of McGentrix for being white.... perhaps for being EXTRA white....and Borat, IMO (which may be minority) is not that funny.

Point is this humor you mention, although it may be inappropriate, sophmoric and insulting, and believe me I know inappropriate, sophmoric and insulting, at least stems from and has a basis in fact.

So by this standard it would have been ok for Imus to have called the stripper in the Duke lacrosse case a nappy-headed ho, because there is an element of truth there. I'm seeing a clear double standard.

If Set isn't making fun of Mcgentrix for being EXTRA WHITE(whatever that means) then why call him McWhitey? Others disagree with McGentrix, but nobody but Setanta stoops to this level. When he disagrees with snood he doesn't call him Blacky. I'm seeing a double standard here as well.

Whether Borat or Imus is funny or not is subjective, but they have both made racist, sexist, and anti-semetic remarks. One gets fired, the other gets rewarded. A clear double standard.

It seems to me that depending on whom the target of the offense is, plays more a role than the comment itself.

If a person or group we don't really like makes an insulting comment, we go after them hard.

If a person or group we like makes the same insulting comment, we give them a pass.

In the Imus case, he is not very likeable to begin with, so there are already people ready to pounce when he screws up.

Hilary Clinton didn't get one tenth the heat that Imus received for her racist routine about Mohammed and the gas station.

It's too bad one set of rules doesn't apply to all.

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snood wrote:

And as to CK's question for me about "McWhitey"...
Yes, I think those things are not right to say, and for the same reasons.

See, I don't think the particular mean-spiritedness that comes across in some words is hard to recognize. I've been guilty of it when talking about certain high profile black republicans.

I'm glad to hear you say that. I agree.

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Here's the thing though, CK - if all that comes from this time when the 'Imus thing' caused a national self-check is that we make sure we point the finger at everyone who has ever been guilty of it and share the hypocrisy equally, I think we may miss an important moment. Maybe this recent highlighting of the power of cruel words doesn't have to just evaporate into "well, everyone does it", but can lead to at least beginning to move away from their acceptability.

But if the finger isn't pointed when and where it needs to be....how will people know when they are being offensive to others? They don't seem to get it on their own.

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This is one of the best threads I've read in a long time--not that I'm here all that often.

In one case, the Imus thing is old and taking too much time out of the tragedies being inflicted in other parts of the world, but I think the huge outpouring of emotion and opinion about this topic is late coming. It's about time this was looked at closely and honestly. I've seen so many different opinions stated that were based on honesty, not mean-spiritedness or because of racial bigotry (although there is always some the that garbage in any discussion).

Maybe this huge deal will bring about some badly needed change in the way we treat each other and the way we talk about each other. Why can't schools teach good manners? It wouldn't take much time but it would give everyone in class an even playing field in social situations. I'm not talking about whether or not to hold up your pinkiy while drinking tea, but how to speak to another human being in an intelligent, level-headed way and, above all, with respect.

Starting with rap--maybe teaching how jazz started in the black community and became highly respected all over the world, often more respected in other countries than right here in the States. You can't just remove something without leaving room for an appropriate replacement.

Black artistry and talent were looked on with awe by so many. Maybe that respect can be brought back because of this huge upheaval. I sure hope that something constructive happens now that a real opportunity has appeared.

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Diane wrote:

Maybe this huge deal will bring about some badly needed change in the way we treat each other and the way we talk about each other. Why can't schools teach good manners? It wouldn't take much time but it would give everyone in class an even playing field in social situations. I'm not talking about whether or not to hold up your pinkiy while drinking tea, but how to speak to another human being in an intelligent, level-headed way and, above all, with respect.

Maybe we could get Frank Apisa to teach the class. Laughing

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Groan...I love Frank but he can be a, well sort of, um, opinionated...

It's waaaay past my bedtime. I look forward to reading more of this thread tomorrow.

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Diane wrote

Quote:

Maybe this huge deal will bring about some badly needed change in the way we treat each other and the way we talk about each other. Why can't schools teach good manners? It wouldn't take much time but it would give everyone in class an even playing field in social situations. I'm not talking about whether or not to hold up your pinkiy while drinking tea, but how to speak to another human being in an intelligent, level-headed way and, above all, with respect.

Schools hell. They have a big enough problem teaching children who do not care to learn. The problem in this nation is not the school systems but parental neglect. It is time to place the blame where it belongs. Squarely on the shoulders of the parents.

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Au1929, you are right, of course, regarding the necessity of parental involvement in the lives of their children, but blame puts a damper on change.

The schools are asked to do far more than they should, and I wasn't speaking of a course in Miss Manners; only a method of talking and responding to children that will aurtomatically teach good manners--more than manners, it will help define respect for children who rarely receive it or who rarely know how to live with it and use it in their personal lives.

Just concentrating on the history of blacks in this country, in science, arts, etc. would do wonders, IMO, for changing attitudes. There simply isn't enough black history, especially with a one-size-fits-all system such as No Child Left Behind. Children are certainly smart enough to understand the wide chasm between rap and intellect. Often, children are amazingly smarter than adults in their understanding of society's mores/values.

Most important though, is the point of Snood's thread. How to change what has become an unhealthy environment for all children, but especially black children who actually live in the environment being 'rapped' about.

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This is a part of a Clarence Page (Chicago Tribune) editorial. It mentions the efforts that have been ongoing from black people in fighting the garbage from rap music...

Imus' defenders argue that he shouldn't be punished while countless rap stars get away with using that word and much worse. That's a pretty feeble diversion from the question of why Imus felt compelled to use it against what he now admits was a thoroughly "inappropriate" target. What many of Imus' defenders do not know is how deeply the word "ho" already divides black America.

It's a bum rap to say, as some of my e-mailers have claimed, that black people haven't protested sexism, racism and gangsterism in rap music. Students at Spelman College, a historically black liberal arts college for women, forced the rapper Nelly to cancel a charity fundraising visit to the school a few years ago in protest over one of his sexist music videos. Queen Latifah won the 1994 Grammy for best solo rap performance with "U.N.I.T.Y," in which she tells women "You got to let him know . . . You ain't a bitch or a ho." The late C. Delores Tucker crusaded for a decade against "gangster rap" pollution, including buying stock in major record companies in order to protest at stockholders meetings.

But positive efforts like that have sadly little impact in the mainstream media or mainstream white culture. As a result, when black listeners, among others, hear the words coming back at them from the lips of a couple of white fellows like Imus and his producer, it's like rubbing salt in our cultural wounds.

As for Imus, reports of the death of his career are undoubtedly exaggerated. He's been fired before. In the late 1970s he returned to Cleveland radio, which he left a few years earlier with a Cleveland Plain Dealer headline reading, "Garbage mouth goes to Gotham." He worked his way back up the food chain at least once and can do it again, perhaps on censor-free satellite radio.

The young Rutgers women have given us all an excellent example of how to stand up for yourself with grace, courage and intelligence.

And Rev. Al Sharpton has promised he will widen his crusade to go after other pollution on the airwaves, including hip-hop pollution. I hope he delivers.

Imus has ignited a national conversation. Let's keep it going. We have a lot to teach each other.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-070415page-column,1,6297453.column?coll=chi-news-col

I know some people would rather rail against Sharpton than get behind any push he starts to clean up some of rap music, and I kind of understand. Self-aggrandizement and grandstanding irritate the heck out of me, too. But I can swallow the bile that wells up at the huckstering, if he or anyone else does things for the greater good. I used to make that choice with one of the biggest egomaniacal camera-hogs of all time - Bill Clinton.

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Re: Physician, Heal Your Damn Self

snood wrote:

.....

So I'll end much the way I began. Please don't take this as some kind of commiseration with Imus or any other white public figure who gets caught being racist or sexist. Or some kinds of blanket condemnation of all black rappers or rap music or all minority leaders or anything like that. I just wanted to say I think we can and should be more aggressive about policing ourselves, and this latest thing with Imus brought that, among other things, forcefully home to me.

Just checked into this, snood, and I agree with the general direction of your thoughts.

I would summarize my thoughts by saying many people are consumed by looking for ways to have others validate or respect them, and respect comes first from ourselves, earned by our own behavior and character. If we do that, we will find others also respecting us, at least the others that even matter or are worth worrying about, and we would soon find all of us doing better. Also, we could all solve the Imus problem by turning off people like Imus, and that problem would evaporate.

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Cam'ron vows he'll never help police - ever

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BY BILL HUTCHINSON
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Friday, April 20th 2007, 4:00 AM

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Print Email Suggest a Story

Hip-hop artist Cam'ron films a scene for the movie 'Killa Season' at Cinema World Studios in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

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Harlem-raised rapper Cam'ron says in an upcoming TV interview that he would never cooperate with cops - even if he knew his neighbor was a serial killer.

The 31-year-old millionaire entertainer, founder of his own record label, says helping the police solve crimes goes against his "code of ethics" and is bad for business.

"If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me? I wouldn't call and tell anybody on him. But I'd probably move," Cam'ron, whose real name is Cameron Giles, tells CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview to be broadcast Sunday.

"I'm not going to call and be like, 'The serial killer's in 4E,'" the rapper tells correspondent Anderson Cooper.

Cam'ron has practiced what he preaches. He refused to cooperate with Washington cops in 2005 when he was shot in an attempted carjacking of his Lamborghini.

He maintains a wall of silence with the cops even though he has lost friends to gun violence, including famed Brooklyn rapper Notorious B.I.G.

"It would definitely hurt my business, and the way I was raised, I just don't do that," the platinum-selling artist tells Cooper.

Geoffrey Canada, president of the Harlem Children's Zone, says on the program that rappers like Cam'ron care more about their "street credibility" than the safety of their streets.

"It's one of those things that sell music and no one really quite understands why," Canada says.

"It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities...It's like we're saying to the criminals, 'You can have our community...Do anything you want and we will either deal with it ourselves or we'll simply ignore it.'"

New York police have accused other rappers of stonewalling investigations of violent cases.

Busta Rhymes has refused to cooperate with police probing the slaying of his bodyguard, Israel Ramirez, who was shot dead in February 2006 outside a Brooklyn recording studio.

[email protected]

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CerealKiller wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well Paris Hilton IS a slut

Is she? Or has she just been branded one by the media?

I guess that would depend on what context she flashes her pussy around for all to see..... the media does paint with an awfully broad brush.... and apparently it would take a wide and broad one to paint that particular orifice.... :wink:

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On one hand--a slightly soiled hand--the rappers.

On the other hand, according to Newsweek it was the outrage of black journalists that spread to advertisers and studio executives which got Imus fired.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18110453/site/newsweek/

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Quote:

well Paris Hilton IS a slut

Big deal! With all that dough, why should she care about what others say?

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I could care less... in my life... some of my best and most memorable times have been with sluts....I'm not judging... just stating a fact....

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Physician, Heal Your Damn Self

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