Health Care Non-American Style

I mean, with the "basic medical needs" in our system, we get four weeks in sanatoriums after (serious) operations for rehabilitation - many don't want that, stay at home and get the reha there (with the effect that many sanatoriums had to be closed, like one in our place).

0 Replies

Until very recently, they even paid the money for a basic funeral after healthcare had run its course. It sounds a bit morbit, but it made a lot of sense to me: most people act as if they were immortal, or as if their funeral wasn't expensive. The Sterbegeld made sure your mourning relatives wouldn't have to scrape together multiple kilobucks on short notice just so they could bury you.

0 Replies

Well, that was the only thing I really appreciated to be deleted ... from the health insurance, I mean.

(There's one thing I totally agree with our conservatives here: even if they delete a lot more from our health care - we are doing a lot better than e.g. most Americans who have to pay a lot more for less.)

0 Replies

fishin wrote:

Swimpy wrote:
I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

I odn't think it is so much a matter of everyone having to lower their expectations as far as care itself is concerned.

To me anyway, the expectations issue is more one of the expecattions of what such a system should or could look like and whether or not people would settle for a system that fills the basic needs without going overboard.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, fishin'. What would an American-style system look like? Baldimo would have us believe that in order to cover all, we must have lower standards. I think that's a common belief in this country, fueled by the fear mongers who want the status quo.

Thomas, I think the German model is a good one. Since we already have a system in place where employers provide insurance and we already have Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the indigent. Why can't those existing programs be built upon to include the uninsured?

0 Replies

Swimpy wrote:

Thomas, I think the German model is a good one. Since we already have a system in place where employers provide insurance and we already have Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the indigent. Why can't those existing programs be built upon to include the uninsured?

There's no reason why not. The only thing I dislike about about "medicare for all" (Ted Kennedy) is that it creates a federal healthcare monopolist, which would be a single point of failure. Germany avoids this problem by federalizing only the rules about who has to be insured through the system, and what services healthcare providers must provide. The actual operation of the system happens either on the county/city level or through the private sector. There is much about the German system that even grown-up Republicans would like if they studied it -- and which America could reach through reasonably small reforms from where it currently is.

0 Replies

Swimpy wrote:

fishin wrote:
Swimpy wrote:
I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

I odn't think it is so much a matter of everyone having to lower their expectations as far as care itself is concerned.

To me anyway, the expectations issue is more one of the expecattions of what such a system should or could look like and whether or not people would settle for a system that fills the basic needs without going overboard.

That's exactly what I'm getting at, fishin'. What would an American-style system look like? Baldimo would have us believe that in order to cover all, we must have lower standards. I think that's a common belief in this country, fueled by the fear mongers who want the status quo.

Thomas, I think the German model is a good one. Since we already have a system in place where employers provide insurance and we already have Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the indigent. Why can't those existing programs be built upon to include the uninsured?

I know for sure my coverage would decline. I currently have a PPO type insurace. I pay more for it and I don't mind. If I want to see a specialist for something I don't have to go through my main care provider for permission or a referal as they call it. I don't have to seek permission from my insurance to see a specialist. I can schedule an appt and just go. I don't have to jump through hoops I can do as I see fit to my own health. Any type of universal insurance to lower costs would curtail what I think is best for me and my family.

It isn't doom and gloom, it is a known fact that I wouldn't have the same control over my health choices.

0 Replies

Baldimo wrote:

I know for sure my coverage would decline. I currently have a PPO type insurace. I pay more for it and I don't mind. If I want to see a specialist for something I don't have to go through my main care provider for permission or a referal as they call it. I don't have to seek permission from my insurance to see a specialist. I can schedule an appt and just go. I don't have to jump through hoops I can do as I see fit to my own health. Any type of universal insurance to lower costs would curtail what I think is best for me and my family.

It isn't doom and gloom, it is a known fact that I wouldn't have the same control over my health choices.

That's exactly how we do it. And my wife does (she's insured for free on my insurance - as would all our children, if we had some).

(Due to various illnesses, we wife sees more specialists regularily.)

0 Replies

Baldimo, I have a PPO as well and I gladly pay for the extra service,
however, we are talking about people who cannot afford healthcare insurance, regardless if PPO or HMO.

Under an universal healthcare system you still have the ability to get
better insurance through higher premiums, but your fellow neighbor
who cannot even pay for an HMO now, would be able to carry basic
health care insurance provided by the state/feds.

In the end, we all benefit from it as we ensure a healthier nation who
can be more productive on many other levels.

0 Replies

The German system isn't perfect either, maybe in Walter's neck of the woods as it is a very small community where everyone is known and
Dr. Huber makes house calls and the Pharmacist will fill your prescription
even if it is a Sunday.

In larger cities it is quite different and you'll find many waiting rooms
hopelessly overcrowded and physicians who are very indifferent to their
patients needs, mainly due to their tremendous work load.

My mother's cardiologist - a capacity in his field - has no time to attend
to her in a manner he should, and he refers her back to her regular
GP for procedures that he's not really competent for. This resulted in
over-medicating her for a prolonged period of time, despite bi-monthly
check-ups.

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

The German system isn't perfect either,

I don't think anybody said it was.

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

Baldimo, I have a PPO as well and I gladly pay for the extra service,
however, we are talking about people who cannot afford healthcare insurance, regardless if PPO or HMO.

Under an universal healthcare system you still have the ability to get
better insurance through higher premiums, but your fellow neighbor
who cannot even pay for an HMO now, would be able to carry basic
health care insurance provided by the state/feds.

In the end, we all benefit from it as we ensure a healthier nation who
can be more productive on many other levels.

Why can't they afford health insurance? Is it because they don't have jobs that offer insurance?

Instead of universal which will take from me to offer others how about better incentives to business to offer insurance? Let companies group together to purchase insurance together to lower the over all cost. I should have to give up what I have in order for others to prosper. I have worked to hard in life to get where I am to be screwed for other people. That isn't the American way and it isn't the American dream.

0 Replies

Baldimo, may I ask how many percent of your monthly income your health insurance premium costs? Just the percentage -- obviously I don't want you to publish your personal finances for the world to see.

0 Replies

Thomas wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
The German system isn't perfect either,

I don't think anybody said it was.

Ditto.

Besides that I know the situation in some cities (bigger than where your mother lives) as well and quite well, from the patients sides, doctors' views and how health insurence companies see it.

0 Replies

Why should universal healthcare take anything away from you, Baldimo?
If you can afford better insurance you'll pay a higher premium and get
superior/preferred service for it. No harm done to you!

A great percentage of Americans work for small companies that cannot
afford healthcare insurance for their employees, thus they have none.
Paying insurance privately for themselves and the entire family is quite
costly (more so than employer group plans) in addition to certain preexisting conditions that aren't covered. These are American citizen
who work, contribute to society, pay their taxes but are unable to
pay for health care.

It is our obligation as Americans, as a government to help our fellow
citizens.

Sure, you're sitting on your high horse and can relax. But what happens, Baldino, if you have an accident (gawd forbid) and are out of work for
several months, need additional rehabilitation and may never recover
from your injuries 100 %? You will be out of a job, your monthly healthcare premium will be at a maximum and you're barely able to
make ends meet. Having insurance provided for you and your family
would be at least one worry less.

It's always the ones that have a good income and some wealth accumulated, who think they never would fall on hard times. Guess what? It even happened to the very wealthy ones.

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Thomas wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
The German system isn't perfect either,

I don't think anybody said it was.

Ditto.

Besides that I know the situation in some cities (bigger than where your mother lives) as well and quite well, from the patients sides, doctors' views and how health insurence companies see it.

Patient care is definitely better here in the United States.

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

The German system isn't perfect either, maybe in Walter's neck of the woods as it is a very small community where everyone is known and
Dr. Huber makes house calls and the Pharmacist will fill your prescription
even if it is a Sunday.

In larger cities it is quite different and you'll find many waiting rooms
hopelessly overcrowded and physicians who are very indifferent to their
patients needs, mainly due to their tremendous work load.

My mother's cardiologist - a capacity in his field - has no time to attend
to her in a manner he should, and he refers her back to her regular
GP for procedures that he's not really competent for. This resulted in
over-medicating her for a prolonged period of time, despite bi-monthly
check-ups.

I'm not all defending our system and actually do think that a lot more could be done - and better.

But
- there HAS to be a certain amount of "Dr.Hubers" who do house calls,
- per so-and-so many inhabitants there HAS to be a pharmacy opene 24/24 , 7//7 (for us 70,000 inhabitants three pharmacies).

If a GP (who's not an internist) makes cardiologic procedures, I would report it to the medical association and changed the doctor immediately.

We have - as a spa - perhaps some more specialists than any other similar village - but anyone can go there or use the consultation hours of the hospital doctors.

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

Patient care is definitely better here in the United States.

That's the most important thing.

If so, I wouldn't like to change the system neither.
(The time a doctor takes care personally with her/his patient here has a lot to do with the fact how much she/he gets paid for it.
Unfortunately.
That works better in smaller communities.
Fortunately.)

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
Thomas wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
The German system isn't perfect either,

I don't think anybody said it was.

Ditto.

Besides that I know the situation in some cities (bigger than where your mother lives) as well and quite well, from the patients sides, doctors' views and how health insurence companies see it.

Patient care is definitely better here in the United States.

Where is that? I'd like to know so we can send all the people who come to America for care can go there instead.

Health Care Non-American Style

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know