Health Care Non-American Style

In this case, I never had a problem finding one of these in Germany -- did you, Walter? The worst thing I can say about gerneral practicioners in Germany is they rarely make housecalls anymore. This used to be routine in my grandparents' days.

This is as bad as the GP shortage ever got for me.

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CalamityJane wrote:

It seems though, there aren't enough physicians around in Germany. Waiting rooms are crowded and procedures (if not an emergency) are dragged out for months on end. Patience is the name of the game.

May I doubt that?

In 2004 Germamy had 338.9 practising physicians per 100 000 inhabitants (the [from the year 2000, according to this source] number for the USA was 254.1).

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Thomas wrote:

In this case, I never had a problem finding one of these in Germany -- did you, Walter? The worst thing I can say about gerneral practicioners in Germany is they rarely make housecalls anymore. This used to be routine in my grandparents' days.

This is as bad as the GP shortage ever got for me.

In our (suburbian) village, we've three general practioners and one internist doing house calls. (Which -mostly- is due to the fact that we've got five larger senior residences here, though.)

I think, most GP's do house calls, though.

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Re: Health Care Non-American Style

Swimpy wrote:

The upcoming UA presidential race will undoubtedly include a debate about health care. Most of the Democratic candidates have either proposed a plan to cover everyone or are planning to propose one soon. Barack Obama said
Quote:
"Every four years presidential candidates trot out their plans, then nothing happens," Obama said. "How do we build a movement for change so that when a president is elected there is actually a constituency and a consensus that is built so we can move the agenda through Congress."
Source

It's true. We've been talking about this since Nixon (maybe earlier) and still 45 million Americans do not have access to affordable health care. We've never had a real honest discussion about the options.

I'd like to know in detail how other countries provide health care to all their citizens. Can you describe the health care system in your country, please?

Do we have any proof that all 45 million without insurance are citizens? Of that 45 million how many do not have insurance by choice? I know when I was in my 20's before I got married and started having children I didn't have insurance by choice. I was young and healthy so what did I need with insurance. My work offered it, I just didn't want it. Will be interesting to see what the results are.

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Re: Health Care Non-American Style

Baldimo wrote:

Do we have any proof that all 45 million without insurance are citizens? Of that 45 million how many do not have insurance by choice? I know when I was in my 20's before I got married and started having children I didn't have insurance by choice. I was young and healthy so what did I need with insurance. My work offered it, I just didn't want it. Will be interesting to see what the results are.

I suppose, everyone without an insurance is someone without insurance.

To have no insurance is .... ehem, well why should I need a fire insurance? It never burnt here.

However, this is quite interesting: here, in Germany, people who can afford that want to get out of the compulsary health insurance and join private companies ... because they pay for more (at least at a younger age and when you can pay the higher rates).

My father (and by that we, his family) were uninsured until I left the my compulsary service and went to university (and was insured then compulsary): we got free service at all hospitals of the congregation he was a physic with, vaccinations and various other medical examinations were 8are) free from the public health office, and the dentist was a friend ...

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Here, you needn't be a citizen to qualify for health coverage.

Permanent residents are covered provincially as are convention refugees after a three month waiting period. During the qualifying time, the Feds pick up the tab for refugees.

Refugee claimants, failed refugee claimants, even those subject to deportation awaiting risk assessment results who have no status at all qualify for federal coverage (essential and emergency care).

Illegals, who float under any authoritative radar, are s.o.l.

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Joeblow wrote:

Here, you needn't be a citizen to qualify for health coverage.

That's the fact in Germany as well:
- all EU-citizens have guaranteed free medical treatment by EU agreements,
- refugees, asylum seekers get it becuase their aid is reduced by a certain amount (nominally), which is the lowest possible monthly fee for insurance.

I forget to add that in our compulsory insurance system, spooses and children are included (so far they don't earn own money).

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My memory's fuzzy Walter, but I believe there used to be a similar system here for citizen's etc at least that I recall. Employers' of a certain size (seven employees or more? I have no idea why I'm suggesting that number, maybe it's forgotten knowledge, maybe I'm full of it) were required to set up the provincial insurance payment as a deduction from your paycheque. I forget what my premium was back in those days, but it was a nominal fee. I also have no recollection of when that actually changed in Ontario. I may have been living out of country at the time.

So never mind all of the above, I'm reminded that premiums were reinstituted a couple of years ago.

I'll need to track down a pay stub.

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I appreciate all of your comments. I want to be careful that this doesn't turn into a debate on whether universal health insurance is the right way to go for the US. I think that topic deserves its own thread. I do find it interesting that so far, we havent't had anyone click the other button.

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most of the comments seem to be from "non u.s. residents" !
i guess we are all very much concerned with the well-being of our american friends - whether they like it or not :wink: .
hbg

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hamburger, that's what I was hopong for. I wanted to learn more from my no-american friends so I can make an informed decision when the time comes.

I noticed that someone did click the "other" button. Can that person tell me more?

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swimpy :
you probably read my comments about the ontario/canada health system .

my tongue-in-cheek remark would be that just about everyone wants better health care , but many citizens find it difficult to understand that they'll have to pay for it , whether through various taxes in a (semi) government operated system or through private insurance or out-of-pocket .

particularly with the population aging rapidly and more expensive "wonderdrugs" and medical procedures becoming available , there will no doubt have to be some kind of "rationing" of health-care at some point .

we could look at health care just as any other kind of consumer goods .
if we have the money we can buy a cadillac , if we don't have the money we can buy a used car or walk ; but personally i would NOT like to see health care lumped into that same category .
no doubt , others will disagree with me STRONGLY .

in canada there are plenty of people that feel that if they have the money , they should be allowed to buy their place at the front of the line rather than having to get in the line-up with everyone else .
of course , those are the people that have the money :wink: .
tough luck for everyone else , they say.
hbg

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I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

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Swimpy wrote:

I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

The level of care would drop. Look at Canada where if it isn't the regular everyday care then you are screwed. If all you ever get is a cold then your fine. Need an organ transplant better luck next time.

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Baldimo wrote:

The level of care would drop. Look at Canada where if it isn't the regular everyday care then you are screwed. If all you ever get is a cold then your fine. Need an organ transplant better luck next time.

I can say nothing about Canada.

Here's the only problem that we don't have enough organ spenders (about 10,000 organ transplatations are paid per year by the compulsory health insurance funds).

You get, however, a transplatation only if it's medically necessary.

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Baldimo wrote:

Swimpy wrote:
I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

The level of care would drop. Look at Canada where if it isn't the regular everyday care then you are screwed. If all you ever get is a cold then your fine. Need an organ transplant better luck next time.

How about we tackle this American-style and stop being so negative?

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Swimpy wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
Swimpy wrote:
I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

The level of care would drop. Look at Canada where if it isn't the regular everyday care then you are screwed. If all you ever get is a cold then your fine. Need an organ transplant better luck next time.

How about we tackle this American-style and stop being so negative?

If Germany has any value as a precedent at all, the opposite is true. We have universal healthcare, and on average, we are getting better value for less money than Americans do. Of course, "on average" doesn't mean that every German does better than he would in America. But if the fear is that "everyone will have to lower their expectations", it is flatly contradicted in Germany -- and by most other countries with universal health care, I suspect.

(... must ... not ... say ... whether this means that America should introduce universal health care..... Must ... not ... take ... a ... stand ... on ... this. Must ... not ...)

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<puts on large, spangly turban>

<places be-ringed and be-lacquered fingers at temples>

<takes a deep breath, closes eyes, concentrates>

I have now sent out my thought tendrils alllll the way over the ocean, and yes... I think I'm beginning to see it... I do! It is clear! This man Thomas is most definitely FOR universal health care!

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I take the Fifth. Whatever your telepathic powers, they will not make me incriminate myself.

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Swimpy wrote:

I want everyone to have access to affordable health care. The problem we face is that many Americans (most?) already have good coverage through their employers. I think the fear is that everyone will have to lower their expectations if there is universal health care.

I odn't think it is so much a matter of everyone having to lower their expectations as far as care itself is concerned.

To me anyway, the expectations issue is more one of the expecattions of what such a system should or could look like and whether or not people would settle for a system that fills the basic needs without going overboard.

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Health Care Non-American Style

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