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Introduction to Noam Chomsky, leading American dissident

 
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 05:44 pm
echi wrote:
Chomsky is NOT a Pol Pot apologist (NOTICE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE). This is just another example of the sort of cowardly, mudslinging tactics employed by pussies like OCCOM BILL, apparently in an attempt to make themselves look smart. Try again!


echi, that was me who said Chomsky ignored the firsthand accounts of genocide for a long time and was supportive of the regime. Have you read Samantha Power's "Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide?" She works only on basis of documents and first-hand interviews. I'd prefer it wasn't so, but that's what his stand was at the time.
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 05:48 pm
btw, that's a worthwhile book to read for all who like Chomsky. It has little to do with him. Rather, it's a far better account of what's wrong with the U.S. foreign policy. Her writing and methodology are of a much higher quality. I kinda sympathize with WHAT he is trying to SAY, but the HOW he does it is just not respectable.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 06:17 pm
(OBill, it is not clear what you really think about Chomsky.... can you be a bit clearer about your opinion? )

Chomsky has a role to fill-- he is a dissident. This is a useful role and he plays it well. I don't see him as either Demon or Messiah. He has a place in society.

Chomsky is a critic of American policy. It is healthy for any person to question themselves... and it is healthy for any nation to question themselves as well. I think he is good for national dialog.

Many of his ideas are interesting... and the questions he raises need to be asked.

It is not fair to say that Chomsky is anti-Jewish. He is certainly anti-Israel, and there is a big difference between being anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. In general I find attempts to equate criticisms with the questionable political policies of Israel to anti-Semitism to be intellectual trickery-- and these attacks against Chomsky are groundless.

Neither Demon nor Messiah is sums up my opinion of the man. He raises the intellectually and morally challenging questions that need to be raised.

He deserves to be listened to.
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 06:19 pm
"dissident" - i think that word is interpreted far more liberally in the U.S. than I'm used to. He's not exactly censored either.

Dunno... I just don't see him as someone I should be taking seriously.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 07:14 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
Dunno... I just don't see him as someone I should be taking seriously.


I have an easier time taking him seriously than I do his "followers".

Most of them don't seem to actually understand what he is saying. They just like the idea that he is against the established order of things and that's all that seems to matter.
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dagmaraka
 
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Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 08:40 pm
agreed.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2007 09:16 pm
I agree with that, too. I've found that his detractors suffer a similar affliction (equal and opposite, I suppose).
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2007 09:02 pm
echi wrote:
Chomsky is NOT a Pol Pot apologist (NOTICE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE). This is just another example of the sort of cowardly, mudslinging tactics employed by pussies like OCCOM BILL, apparently in an attempt to make themselves look smart. Try again!
Cowardly? Pussy? You must be a kid if you think boldly hurling such accusations from safely behind a fake avatar and made up name make you sound cool. Perhaps when you grow up; you'll also notice that I did indeed provide a source to counteract the nonsense preached by your favorite idiot... including the bit about being a Pol Pot apologist:
Quote:
There's 98 more examples of sensational idiocy if you'd care to look.

ebrown_p wrote:
(OBill, it is not clear what you really think about Chomsky.... can you be a bit clearer about your opinion? )

Chomsky has a role to fill-- he is a dissident. This is a useful role and he plays it well. I don't see him as either Demon or Messiah. He has a place in society.

Chomsky is a critic of American policy. It is healthy for any person to question themselves... and it is healthy for any nation to question themselves as well. I think he is good for national dialog.

Many of his ideas are interesting... and the questions he raises need to be asked.

It is not fair to say that Chomsky is anti-Jewish. He is certainly anti-Israel, and there is a big difference between being anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. In general I find attempts to equate criticisms with the questionable political policies of Israel to anti-Semitism to be intellectual trickery-- and these attacks against Chomsky are groundless.

Neither Demon nor Messiah is sums up my opinion of the man. He raises the intellectually and morally challenging questions that need to be raised.

He deserves to be listened to.
Swallow a grain of salt, and then read the list of 100 Chomsky lies I linked to earlier.

There most certainly is a place for dissidents in society, but that alone provides no excuse for Chomsky's idiocy. He doesn't deserve to be listened to; he has a right to speak. And it is quite fitting that when he speaks nonsense it should be pointed out to fools who are only too eager to gobble up his BS as truth.

echi wrote:
I agree with that, too. I've found that his detractors suffer a similar affliction (equal and opposite, I suppose).
Laughing You clearly don't realize what you're agreeing with. That's cuteĀ… But for your edification; there is nothing similar between having an appetite for sensational nonsense and NOT having an appetite for sensational nonsense.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2007 09:46 pm
Bill,

You are relying solely on a list compiled by Paul Bogdanor-- a gentleman who clearly has a score to settle with Mr. Chomsky.

I skimmed through his list, and it is not at all convincing. There are many people who try to equate criticism of the political policies of Israel with anti-semitism. I don't buy it.

The fact that you can compile such a list is meaningless. There are similar political hit lists compiled about nearly every outspoken public figure from Jesus to Ayn Rand.

I read both sides of the Pol Pot row... I don't stand with Chomsky on this issue. I also don't stand with Chomsky's critics who are playing the worn political trick of changing what Chomsky is actually saying the make smearing him more effective.

I think Chomsky has a place.

We need Intellectuals who stand up for the rights of the Palestinians. This is a brave position to take and this is the position I most respect Chomsky for.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2007 02:00 am
Good on you Ebrown for recognizing the Palestinians need a voice too. But; Chomsky isn't it. Bogdanor's clearly equally biased list has a very clear foundation in fact. You'll notice he took the trouble to reference most everything he contradicted. Now I would most certainly agree that he too has an agenda, and would simply assume he likely took some of the Chomsky quotes out of context, purposely... but that doesn't change the simple fact that much of the nonsense he disputed was pure and utter bullshit. Whatever actual good Chomsky may do for the underdog is lost in his utter disregard for fact when choosing to blame America first at all cost. By choosing to prostitute his hatred for the U.S. to the point of spreading bile along with whatever message he may actually want to send; he forfeits the opportunity to even be heard by the majority of people who would otherwise be happy to lend him an ear. When the local liar tells the occasional truth, he shouldn't expect to be believed. The Pol Pot thing alone proves he's either a liar or an idiot; and neither deserves more of my time than the A-hole has already gotten.

Ps. I did read considerably more than Bogdanor's list on the subject; including some Chomsky excerpts from the opposing team... the list just happened to be the best of what I ran across when I looked again. Notice the suggestion to swallow a grain of salt before reading it.
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