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Kahlid Shekh Mohommed Confession

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 07:08 am
I don't think many besides really involved know it.

As ruled in EL-MASRI v. UNITED STATES, it a "state secret".
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 07:04 pm
McGentrix wrote:

Do you even know what "Extraordinary Rendition" is?

I assume you haven't got a definition in your Girl Guide manual, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Extraordinary Rendition is a euphemism for torture by proxy, i.e. it's were the US send those they've bought off the Northern Alliance, in Afghanistan, or other innocent people … to foreign countries to be tortured because they believe by doing that they can't actually be accused of doing the act; they're too thick to understand that torture achieves nothing only pain.
I do hope that is of some help to you; now I suggest you get back outside and carry on helping little old ladies across the street
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 08:06 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Liberals will do and say whatever they can to make this event seem meaningless.

You dont have to be dealing in "liberal talking points" to be sceptical about this confession.

Voice of America - the government-funded radio station that aims to inform the populations in dictatorial and US-unfriendly countries - should be credible enough for you, I think:

Quote:
Terrorist Leader Confession Raises Questions

According to a just-released U.S. transcript, accused al-Qaida operative Khalid Sheikh Mohammad has confessed to a leading role in at least 31 alleged terrorist plots, including the attacks of September 11, 2001. The admissions came in the transcript of a closed-door U.S. military hearing at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But, as VOA correspondent Gary Thomas reports, Mohammad's multiple confessions raise some questions.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammad says he was the foreign operations chief for Osama bin Laden and claims a key role, if not the leading one, in some 31 alleged plots around the world and spanning a decade.

But some experts believe that while Mohammad was indeed a key al-Qaida figure, they also say some of his claims are open to question and that he may be inflating his importance in some areas. In 2005, the commission that investigated the September 11 attacks noted Mohammad's sometimes extravagant ambitions and said that he liked to cast himself as a super-terrorist.

Former FBI agent Jack Cloonan, who was on the Osama bin Laden counter-terrorist team in New York, says Mohammad has what he terms an enormous ego. He also notes that the transcript of the March 10 military tribunal hearing has no details of any of the alleged plots.

"Well, one of the things that strikes out at me is that of the 31 operations that he has claimed credit for, claimed credit for himself, is actually the lack of specificity," he said. "Some of the ones are obviously well known, obviously the attacks on the [World] Trade Center, both in '93 and 2001. But some of the other things he's alluding to lack specificity. Now there may be more information that was provided either to the CIA or in fact to the military interrogators. And I hope that information was disseminated."

The article proceeds to quote a former CIA officer who does lend fuller credence to Mohammad's confession. But then it continues by noting:

Quote:
Mohammad himself claims to have been tortured in his CIA interrogations, but the hearing transcript that was released edited out any further comment from him in that regard.

Tom Parker, a former British counter-terrorism officer, says Mohammad's claims of his terrorist leader status could be true. But he says what kind of treatment Khalid Sheikh Mohammad received could have affected his testimony.

"We don't know what he'd been through in the last three years," he said. "But if he has been subjected to highly coercive interrogation techniques, he could be a broken man. At this point he may be entirely prepared to confess to kidnapping [the late singer] Elvis [Presley]. We just don't know."

So, what do you think - Voice of America; Former FBI agent Jack Cloonan; former British counter-terrorism officer Tom Parker; all just rehearsing "liberal talking points"?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 12:46 pm
The Confession Backfired
by Paul Craig Roberts

The first confession released by the Bush regime's Military Tribunals - that of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - has discredited the entire process. Writing in Jurist, Northwestern University law professor Anthony D'Amato likens Mohammed's confession to those that emerged in Stalin's show trials of Bolshevik leaders in the 1930s.

That was my own immediate thought. I remember speaking years ago with Soviet dissident Valdimir Bukovsky about the behavior of Soviet dissidents under torture. He replied that people pressed for names under torture would try to remember the names of war dead and people who had passed away. Those who retained enough of their wits under torture would confess to an unbelievable array of crimes in an effort to alert the public to the falsity of the entire process.

That is what Mohammed did. We know he was tortured, because his response to the obligatory question about his treatment during his years of detention is redacted. We also know that he was tortured, because otherwise there is no point for the US Justice (sic) Dept. memos giving the green light to torture or for the Military Commissions Act, which permits torture and death sentence based on confession extracted by torture.

Mohammed's confession of crimes and plots is so vast that Katherine Shrader of the Associated Press reports that the Americans who extracted Mohammed's confession do not believe it either. It is exaggerated, say Mohammed's tormentors, and must be taken with a grain of salt.

In other words, the US torture crew, reveling in their success, played into Mohammed's hands. Pride goes before a fall, as the saying goes.

Mohammed's confession admits to 31 planned and actual attacks all over the world, including blowing up the Panama Canal and assassinating presidents Carter and Clinton and the Pope. Having taken responsibility for the whole ball of wax along with everything else that he could imagine, he was the entire show. No other terrorists needed.

Reading responses of BBC listeners to Mohammed's confession reveals that the rest of the world is either laughing at the US government for being so stupid as to think that anyone anywhere would believe the confession or damning the Bush regime for being like the Gestapo and KGB.

Humorists are having a field day with the confession: "'I'm a very dangerous mastermind,' said Mohammed, who confessed to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, the Brink's robbery, St. Valentine's Day Massacre, and the Lincoln and McKinley assassinations. Mohammed also accepted responsibility for spreading hay fever and cold sores around the world and for rained out picnics."

If there was anything remaining of the Bush regime not already discredited, Mohammed's confession removed any reputation left.

The most important part of the Mohammed story is yet to make the headlines. Despite having held and tortured hundreds of detainees for years in Gitmo, and we don't know how many more in secret prisons around the world, the US government has come up with only 14 "high value detainees."

In other words, the government has nothing on 99 percent of the detainees who allegedly are so dangerous and wicked that they must be kept in detention without charges, access to attorneys and contact with families.

And little wonder. The vast majority of detainees, alleged "enemy combatants," are not terrorists captured by the CIA and brave US troops. They are hapless persons who happened to be outside their tribal or home territories and were kidnapped by criminal gangs or war lords who profited greatly at the expense of the naive Americans who offered bounties for "terrorists."

The US government does not care that innocent people have been ensnared, because the US government desperately needs both to prove that there are vast numbers of terrorists and to demonstrate its proficiency in protecting Americans by capturing terrorists. Moreover, the US government needs "dangerous suspects" that it can use to keep Americans in a state of supine fearfulness and as a front behind which to undermine constitutional protections and the Bill of Rights.

The Bush-Cheney Regime succeeded in its evil plot, only to throw it all away by releasing the ridiculous confession by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Will Bush's totalitarian Military Tribunal now execute Mohammed on the basis of his confession extracted by torture, or would this be seen everywhere on earth as nothing but an act of murder?

If Bush can't have Mohammed murdered, the US government will have to shut Mohammed away where he cannot talk and tell his tale. The US government will have to replicate Orwell's memory hole by destroying Mohammed's mind with mind-altering drugs and abuse.

It is to such depths that George Bush and Dick Cheney have lowered America.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 06:15 pm
There is absolutely no doubt that America is now high on the list of most hated countries. I know most Australians see the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confession for what it is, the rambling of a desperate man trying to avoid the pain of further torture, enough is enough, the people of America can no longer deny the obvious; their president and his cohorts are up to their necks in the barbaric practice of torture.

Is the world threatened by Islamists, I think not? Bush and his cronies have bombarded the world with lies and misinformation, if there is a threat to the world it is the Bush regime, the only thing this evil administration as accomplished, apart from death and destruction, is to create more enemies for the US; desperate people who want to see the end of this evil empire!
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2007/03/true-confessions-tale-of-khalid-shaikh.php
0 Replies
 
SaveUS
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 08:08 pm
Kahlid confession a travesty
If the Kahlid Shekh Mohommed confession isn't a travesty and a betrayal of the values the United States once held dear I don't know what is.

I am hurt to the bottom of my soul that the Bush adminstration has turned our country's judicial system into something akin to that of Soviet Union and other such systems that we used to consider laughable when I was schoolchild.

Forced confessions and show trials where prisoners can not be interviewed or talked to used to be the exclusive domain of our enemies. Now it seems we have become what we once despised.

The secret prisons, Gitmo, and the military tribunals all telegraph the adminstration's fear that our system is weak. We must give them the backbone they lack and demand fair trials for even the worst of the worst. It is this unflinching display of faith in our own country's principles that will defeat the terrorists and their promise of chaos and destruction.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 09:52 pm
anton wrote:
McGentrix wrote:

Do you even know what "Extraordinary Rendition" is?

I assume you haven't got a definition in your Girl Guide manual, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Extraordinary Rendition is a euphemism for torture by proxy, i.e. it's were the US send those they've bought off the Northern Alliance, in Afghanistan, or other innocent people … to foreign countries to be tortured because they believe by doing that they can't actually be accused of doing the act; they're too thick to understand that torture achieves nothing only pain.
I do hope that is of some help to you; now I suggest you get back outside and carry on helping little old ladies across the street


Ok, good. You now know what it means. Why then would you be so stupid as to write:

Quote:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed just had a three year Extraordinary Rendition in a secret CIA prison


From that statement, it would appear as though you had no idea what it meant. Did you have to look it up after I asked?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 10:44 pm
SaveUS, nice first post, from my point of view anyway. Welcome to a2k.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2007 11:49 pm
McGentrix wrote:

Ok, good. You now know what it means. Why then would you be so stupid as to write:
Quote:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed just had a three year Extraordinary Rendition in a secret CIA prison

From that statement, it would appear as though you had no idea what it meant. Did you have to look it up after I asked?


Not so stupid, perhaps if I had written, "Mohammed just had three years of torture in a secret CIA Prison", you may have understood what I was saying, but then again perhaps not, you do seem to be a stubborn young lady who insists on supporting the unsupportable; that is unless you really do believe that torture is acceptable?
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/lachen/smile30.gif
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 08:21 am
Funny how the Bushies buy this confession without questions. That seems to be the object of the confession itself. It serves as a cover for others who may be guilty. Take his confession of beheading Daniel Pearl. Accepting that as fact takes attention away from further investigations and could exonerate the real killer. THat's what concerns Daniel's family. "Exclusive: Pearl Family Doubts KSM Confession"
March 16, 2007 7:04 PM

Dana Hughes Reports:

The father of murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl says he doesn't believe al Qaeda mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed is the man who beheaded his son, despite Mohammed's confession to a US military tribunal.

"He wants to take credit for doing it, and he wants to exonerate al Qaeda, blame Pakistan, and whatever," said Judea Pearl, Danny's father. "When a person confesses and he has nothing to lose. You have to take it with a spice of doubt."

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Pearl said that from what he knows about the investigation there are still many unanswered questions trailing back to Pakistan. "We still don't know the whereabouts of the guy who owned the nursery , Memon, where Danny was held," said Pearl. "We don't know the identities and the whereabouts of the three Arabs who came the last day [of Danny's captivity] and performed the murder." While Khalid Sheikh Mohammed claims to be one of them, Pearl says the facts "don't match his story."

Pearl worries that since KSM has confessed to his son's murder, it will be easy for the U.S. Government to slow down or close the investigation into the tragedy.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/03/exclusive_pearl.html
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 08:54 am
Okay, so enlighten me. If Middle Eastern terrorists didn't plan 9/11, who did? And, be sure to provide your air tight, reliable proof, since you can hardly critcize a confession of someone pinpointed by the 9/11 Commission Report as one of the principle architects of 9/11 as being unreliable, and then provide an alternate version patched together from rumor, myth, and highly indirect inference.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2007 06:47 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Okay, so enlighten me. If Middle Eastern terrorists didn't plan 9/11, who did? And, be sure to provide your air tight, reliable proof, since you can hardly critcize a confession of someone pinpointed by the 9/11 Commission Report as one of the principle architects of 9/11 as being unreliable, and then provide an alternate version patched together from rumor, myth, and highly indirect inference.

How about you, "provide your air tight, reliable proof" that Middle Eastern terrorists planned the 9/11 attack and at the same time, "provide air tight, reliable proof" that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't tortured prior to his ramblings, then we will have an even playing field on which to continue this thread.?????

Burying your head in the sand, denying the extremely high probability of US torture, and supporting the Bush regime is an insult to the majority of decent Americans and that is a fact
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 05:18 am
anton wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Okay, so enlighten me. If Middle Eastern terrorists didn't plan 9/11, who did? And, be sure to provide your air tight, reliable proof, since you can hardly critcize a confession of someone pinpointed by the 9/11 Commission Report as one of the principle architects of 9/11 as being unreliable, and then provide an alternate version patched together from rumor, myth, and highly indirect inference.

How about you, "provide your air tight, reliable proof" that Middle Eastern terrorists planned the 9/11 attack and at the same time, "provide air tight, reliable proof" that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't tortured prior to his ramblings, then we will have an even playing field on which to continue this thread.?????

Burying your head in the sand, denying the extremely high probability of US torture, and supporting the Bush regime is an insult to the majority of decent Americans and that is a fact

In this thread you ridicule the idea that an Al Qaeda leader participated in planning 9/11. So, as I have asked, if you don't believe that he did, who do you think was responsible? That's a reasonable question.

I asked you first. If you will answer my question as to who you think planned 9/11 if Al Qaeda didn't, and provide evidence better than this confession you ridicule, then I will post an answer to your question above.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 05:34 am
We all know 9/11 was an inside job. wink...wink :wink:

Some are saying the reason there have been no attacks on the US is because this joker has been on ice....then the same 'some' are saying he confessed by torture.

There are surely more than this one terrorists that wish us harm so I don't get this line of thinking at all. Furthermore we know other attacks have been dispatched and thwarted since he has been on ice.

The lengths some will go to to contend nothing we've done protection wise has kept us safe is beyond me. Not saying it can't happen, just that so far KSM hasn't attacked us in a while. wink....wink :wink:
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 09:40 am
Kahlid is just an innocent bystander. Al Jazeera made him look like a villain, because they misquoted him. He only happened to be accompanying his old High School buddy, when the interview occurred. Bin Laden, who? The charge sheet was structured to misrepresent the facts. The hearing was divided into Unclassified and Classified sections to make it appear that Kahlid, a wonderful boy who loves his Mother, must be guilty of J-walking, smoking inside a posted area and parking in a Handicapped spot (Oh, the beast!!) Perfectly great witnesses willing to clear his name weren't allowed to testify. One was apparently willing to testify that Kahlid had only dropped by to pick up his kindergarden children from their babysitter the day he was captured, and that he never even knew a laptop existed in this world. The contents on the laptop's drives weren't filled with high-level terrorist plans for attacking a wide range of U.S., British, and Western targets; all that was on the drive was five years scores for solitair Tic-Tac-Toe played by the real owner of the computer who absent mindedly left in in the witness's car while parking it at a local production of My Fair Lady.

Poor Kahlid. Held for years by brutal U.S. Marines who enjoy beating old men with weighted clubs. Every bone in his body was broken ... twice. The shattered bones were only kept stable by the pig-skin constraints that his whole body was wrapped in for months at a time. Subjected to repeated electrical shock, hung from rafters suspended by his wrists tied behind his back. Denied medical treatment, he had to perform brain-cancer surgery on himself with a plastic spoon; he hasn't been mentally well since. Kept for a year in absolute darkness, and starved by a diet of a crust of bread once a week and with water only available by licking the moisture from stone walls. Put upon the rack and pressed by 600 lbs of pressure on his chest. Repeatedly subjected to mock fireing squads, and the bastinada, an Arab invention, I'm told. Denied the comforts of his religion, Kalid was forced to liisten to radical Christian radio broadcasts interspersed by re-runns of Rush Limbaugh and Coulter.

Kahlid is obviously a hero for being able to withstand daily beatings and interrogation sessions lasting for day with no relieve beyond his lapses into unconsciousness for three years. Finally, he must have broken down and agreed to say anything to make the torture stop. Missing from the charges were his taking responsibility for assasinating the Easter Bunny whose main offense was being an infidel who brings happiness to little children. The plot to shoot down Santa Clause with a SAM almost made it into the charges, but someone pointed out that not everyone still believes in the old fellow. Since the hearing was conducted without open minded observers from either Al Jazeera, Iran, or the Taliban, it may never even have occurred. Kahlid may have died of the USMC abuse years ago, and the whole transcript is a clever forgery by the CIA under the personal direction of the Vice-President.

All this to conceal the obviously bogus War on Terror. No attacks were ever made on U.S. soil, its citizens, nor its military assets around the world. Saddam Hussein had to be eliminated before he blew the whistle on his GOP puppet masters. Right up until the U.S. brazenly attacked and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, the population of the Islamic nations of South Asia loved the U.S., and were intensely working toward full and peaceful democratic governments with participation by women, gays, socialists/anarchists/communists, and dedicated to religious freedom. None of those saintly Imams desired personal power, until after the religious right in the U.S. began conducting regular attacks inside the Islamic World in an effort to eradicate Islam from the world forever.

9/11 was a secret joint operation by the CIA and Mosad, supplied with explosives and technical assistance of Haliburton, and closely supervised by Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld already had experience after blowing up a Marine Barracks with the Marines inside, and sending a boat manned by a stoog to blow a hole in the side of one of America's warships. The conspiracy isn't a new one, but existed even prior to the Ford administration. Only the Democratic Administrations of Presidents Carter and Clinton refused to go along with the plan. It may be that the conspiracy to conquer the world was kept secret from those two Presidents by all the Republican's who somehow managed to retain their government jobs despite their obvious incompetence. Most folks don't even realize that the Shaw of Iran was deposed by the CIA so that they could put their agent-provocateur in power.

Of course the public in the more enlightened countries of the world have long known all of this, but governmental censorship in the U.S. has prevented the voters from learning the truth. The secret death camps filled with Muslims and progressive liberals go about their daily extermination business unmolested. The NSA continues to monitor every American citizen's computer and use of the telephone. The FBI has planted agents in every gathering, right down to the local PTA and local quilting societies. The mails are regularly opened and read. Citizen travel is discouraged by stringent airport security to keep the country divided. Raids in the small hours by Secret Police to round up dissenters goes unreported only in America. Every day more and more people are shot to death, or torn to pieces as they attempt to flee southward into the safety of Mexican prosperity and freedom.

So far the conspiracy begun and orchestrated by The Elders of Zion and a conglomeration of American Merchants of Death at the beginning of the 20th century remains on schedule. If not stopped now by a popular uprising against an illegitimate and illegal dictatorship, the U.S. will conduct unrestricted nuclear war against Iran, the DPRK, Syria, etc. Unless modern technology (a Capitalist design for destruction dating from the onset of the Industrial Revolution, to defeat and oppress and rob third-world peoples) is curbed, then the end of life on this planet is only a decade, or so away. Once American bombs have murdered the peaceful people of Asia, they launch attacks across the Taiwan straights to conquer China. The invasion and occupation of Canada, Australia, and Mexico could happen at anytime ... and there are contingency plans hidden deep inside the CIA vaults for those operations.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 10:03 am
Finally. The TRUTH comes out.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 04:14 am
Asherman wrote:
Kahlid is just an innocent bystander. Al Jazeera made him look like a villain, because they misquoted him. He only happened to be accompanying his old High School buddy, when the interview occurred. Bin Laden, who? The charge sheet was structured to misrepresent the facts. The hearing was divided into Unclassified and Classified sections to make it appear that Kahlid, a wonderful boy who loves his Mother, must be guilty of J-walking, smoking inside a posted area and parking in a Handicapped spot (Oh, the beast!!) Perfectly great witnesses willing to clear his name weren't allowed to testify. One was apparently willing to testify that Kahlid had only dropped by to pick up his kindergarden children from their babysitter the day he was captured, and that he never even knew a laptop existed in this world. The contents on the laptop's drives weren't filled with high-level terrorist plans for attacking a wide range of U.S., British, and Western targets; all that was on the drive was five years scores for solitair Tic-Tac-Toe played by the real owner of the computer who absent mindedly left in in the witness's car while parking it at a local production of My Fair Lady.

Poor Kahlid. Held for years by brutal U.S. Marines who enjoy beating old men with weighted clubs. Every bone in his body was broken ... twice. The shattered bones were only kept stable by the pig-skin constraints that his whole body was wrapped in for months at a time. Subjected to repeated electrical shock, hung from rafters suspended by his wrists tied behind his back. Denied medical treatment, he had to perform brain-cancer surgery on himself with a plastic spoon; he hasn't been mentally well since. Kept for a year in absolute darkness, and starved by a diet of a crust of bread once a week and with water only available by licking the moisture from stone walls. Put upon the rack and pressed by 600 lbs of pressure on his chest. Repeatedly subjected to mock fireing squads, and the bastinada, an Arab invention, I'm told. Denied the comforts of his religion, Kalid was forced to liisten to radical Christian radio broadcasts interspersed by re-runns of Rush Limbaugh and Coulter.

Kahlid is obviously a hero for being able to withstand daily beatings and interrogation sessions lasting for day with no relieve beyond his lapses into unconsciousness for three years. Finally, he must have broken down and agreed to say anything to make the torture stop. Missing from the charges were his taking responsibility for assasinating the Easter Bunny whose main offense was being an infidel who brings happiness to little children. The plot to shoot down Santa Clause with a SAM almost made it into the charges, but someone pointed out that not everyone still believes in the old fellow. Since the hearing was conducted without open minded observers from either Al Jazeera, Iran, or the Taliban, it may never even have occurred. Kahlid may have died of the USMC abuse years ago, and the whole transcript is a clever forgery by the CIA under the personal direction of the Vice-President.

All this to conceal the obviously bogus War on Terror. No attacks were ever made on U.S. soil, its citizens, nor its military assets around the world. Saddam Hussein had to be eliminated before he blew the whistle on his GOP puppet masters. Right up until the U.S. brazenly attacked and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, the population of the Islamic nations of South Asia loved the U.S., and were intensely working toward full and peaceful democratic governments with participation by women, gays, socialists/anarchists/communists, and dedicated to religious freedom. None of those saintly Imams desired personal power, until after the religious right in the U.S. began conducting regular attacks inside the Islamic World in an effort to eradicate Islam from the world forever.

9/11 was a secret joint operation by the CIA and Mosad, supplied with explosives and technical assistance of Haliburton, and closely supervised by Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld already had experience after blowing up a Marine Barracks with the Marines inside, and sending a boat manned by a stoog to blow a hole in the side of one of America's warships. The conspiracy isn't a new one, but existed even prior to the Ford administration. Only the Democratic Administrations of Presidents Carter and Clinton refused to go along with the plan. It may be that the conspiracy to conquer the world was kept secret from those two Presidents by all the Republican's who somehow managed to retain their government jobs despite their obvious incompetence. Most folks don't even realize that the Shaw of Iran was deposed by the CIA so that they could put their agent-provocateur in power.

Of course the public in the more enlightened countries of the world have long known all of this, but governmental censorship in the U.S. has prevented the voters from learning the truth. The secret death camps filled with Muslims and progressive liberals go about their daily extermination business unmolested. The NSA continues to monitor every American citizen's computer and use of the telephone. The FBI has planted agents in every gathering, right down to the local PTA and local quilting societies. The mails are regularly opened and read. Citizen travel is discouraged by stringent airport security to keep the country divided. Raids in the small hours by Secret Police to round up dissenters goes unreported only in America. Every day more and more people are shot to death, or torn to pieces as they attempt to flee southward into the safety of Mexican prosperity and freedom.

So far the conspiracy begun and orchestrated by The Elders of Zion and a conglomeration of American Merchants of Death at the beginning of the 20th century remains on schedule. If not stopped now by a popular uprising against an illegitimate and illegal dictatorship, the U.S. will conduct unrestricted nuclear war against Iran, the DPRK, Syria, etc. Unless modern technology (a Capitalist design for destruction dating from the onset of the Industrial Revolution, to defeat and oppress and rob third-world peoples) is curbed, then the end of life on this planet is only a decade, or so away. Once American bombs have murdered the peaceful people of Asia, they launch attacks across the Taiwan straights to conquer China. The invasion and occupation of Canada, Australia, and Mexico could happen at anytime ... and there are contingency plans hidden deep inside the CIA vaults for those operations.


The following is an extract from an article in the Guardian, and this is widely accepted throughout Western society; this is what you are supporting and the reason why the US is the most hated country on the planet … You are not defending America, you are besmirching the name of that once admired and respected country by denying the truth and defending the evil perpetrated by the Bush regime; for certain decent American's will not support you and you should be treated with contempt.

Human rights have been traded away in Guantánamo in the hope of gaining security, and it has not worked. One of the US's founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, stated: "He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both." Adorned on the walls of the Guantánamo camp is its mission statement: "Honour-bound to defend freedom". After five years of Guantánamo, do you feel any safer?

The full report can be read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1988677,00.html
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 04:52 am
anton wrote:
...
The following is an extract from an article in the Guardian, and this is widely accepted throughout Western society; this is what you are supporting and the reason why the US is the most hated country on the planet … You are not defending America, you are besmirching the name of that once admired and respected country by denying the truth and defending the evil perpetrated by the Bush regime; for certain decent American's will not support you and you should be treated with contempt.

Human rights have been traded away in Guantánamo in the hope of gaining security, and it has not worked. One of the US's founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, stated: "He who trades liberty for security deserves neither and will lose both." Adorned on the walls of the Guantánamo camp is its mission statement: "Honour-bound to defend freedom". After five years of Guantánamo, do you feel any safer?

The full report can be read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1988677,00.html

Well, in terms of being the most hated country on the planet, let's compare the US to those other countries to see if we are the worst:

1. The issue of torture committed by the US breaks down like this:
a. Practices which walk a fine line between torture and aggressive questioning, such as long interrogation sessions.
b. Practices which have been used, but are now forbidden, such as waterboarding.
c. Practices by interrogators who acted contrary to policy and when found out were punished by the US government, such as those of some individuals at Guantanamo Bay.

Not to justify anything wrong that was done, but in terms of being the
most hated country on the planet, the above practices hardly
compare with those of countries which practice extreme torture, e.g.
electric shocks, routinely and as a matter of policy.

2. The invasion of Iraq was undertaken against a country which had
violated its surrender treaty from a previous war, and the invasion
was motivated by a desire to insure that an evil madman with a
penchant for annexing neighbors would not continue nuke and
bioweapons development programs. This is certainly more justified
than many of the invasions in history which were undertaken merely
because the invading country thought it could get something, e.g.
Saddam Hussein's annexation and invasion of Kuwait.

The idea that the actions of the US in the Middle East are worse than the historical behavior of numerous other countries is nonsense.
0 Replies
 
anton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 06:51 am
Brandon9000 wrote:


Well, in terms of being the most hated country on the planet, let's compare the US to those other countries to see if we are the worst:

1. The issue of torture committed by the US breaks down like this:
a. Practices which walk a fine line between torture and aggressive questioning, such as long interrogation sessions.
b. Practices which have been used, but are now forbidden, such as waterboarding.
c. Practices by interrogators who acted contrary to policy and when found out were punished by the US government, such as those of some individuals at Guantanamo Bay.

Not to justify anything wrong that was done, but in terms of being the
most hated country on the planet, the above practices hardly
compare with those of countries which practice extreme torture, e.g.
electric shocks, routinely and as a matter of policy.

2. The invasion of Iraq was undertaken against a country which had
violated its surrender treaty from a previous war, and the invasion
was motivated by a desire to insure that an evil madman with a
penchant for annexing neighbors would not continue nuke and
bioweapons development programs. This is certainly more justified
than many of the invasions in history which were undertaken merely
because the invading country thought it could get something, e.g.
Saddam Hussein's annexation and invasion of Kuwait.

The idea that the actions of the US in the Middle East are worse than the historical behavior of numerous other countries is nonsense.



It's not a matter of comparisons, it is actually a fact. Read the Internet, read foreign newspapers, believe me that is the general opinion amongst normal people around the world; the Bush administration has destroyed the once healthy reputation of the US and you American's who try to make excuses for him and the evil being committed in his name, by burying your head in the sand and pretending it is not happening, are just enforcing what the majority already believe, you are not helping your country with your ignorance. I am truly sorry to see what your leaders are promoting, the belief I once had in your country has gone and I know that applies to all the people I know … You really need to wake up … and that is where I will leave it!
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