Dual Master Bedrooms?

is that what the kids are calling that sound these days?

You know what's really romantic?

When I come home and find the carpets all vacuumed and my laundry taken out of the dryer, and folded on the bed.

Anyone can go buy flowers and say "this is because I love you"

I couldn't care less if I ever get flowers again in my life.

We're finally going to (knock on wood) pour concrete this weekend for a new walkway.

My head is bubbling with the love I know that represents.

Ian watered my plants the other day .

I had Jillian with me, and ended up working almost 10 hours.

Our bell peppers are at the delicate tiny stage where, if they dry out even one BIT, they die. And we have no peppers.

He took out the cups, and spent the 3 minutes watering them slowly so the soil absorbed the water and it didnt just run out and spill over.

(sigh)
romance in a bottle right there...

the most romantic photograph I ever saw....

It was an old black and white photo, of a husband and wife, in their late 40's, early 50's.

The picture looked like it was back in the 30's or 40's. You could tell the man was a farmer, and she was a farmers wife. He had on his work clothes, and I don't remember for sure, but I think he was holding something in his one hand, like a tool, or bucket. You knew he worked hard.

She was wearing a housedress, with her apron on. Her hair was pulled up carelessly, tied into some sort of bun, but with plenty of stray hair waving in the breeze, across her forehead, and around her ears.

She was a tall woman, as tall as him. They weren't fat, they weren't skinny. Neither one had ever thought about dieting a day in their lives.

I forget the background. It might have been a sheet, it might have been a fence, or a field, or a barn.

The picture was entirely unposed. It was like the photographer had said, "lemme take your picture" and wham bam it was over.

Here's how they stood....One of her arms, and his free arm, were casually draped around each others shoulders, she had her other arm on her hip, I think. Her smile was one of those crooked smirks that only lasts that one instant, you could never hold that mirth for more than that.

His smile looked like he was just cocking his head up and saying "hey" like you'd smile and greet a friend. That look was obviously momentary also.

What the picture said was...We're 2 people that like each other. We're equals and each of us works just as hard as the other. Neither one's better than the other. We been through all sorts of life, babies, death, being broke and having a grand time on a dime. We're in it for the long haul, although we never thought of it that way. We just are.

It seemed like right after that picture was taken, she was probably plucking a chicken and he was digging a fence post.

It was the most beautiful picture of love I've ever seen.

that's not romantic that's doing your share....sounds to me like what you want is a domestic, not a partner...

Wow, talking about jeez louise.. I sure must have hit a nerve there, for all y'all are running with this.

OK, so for you it works differently. Fine. Whats the point of going on and on mocking someone else's sense of romance? Are you really that defensive that if two posters comment on how differently it works for them, you have to post again and again how their way sounds boring and cliche and cheap to you, and how great your sense of romance is?

I mean, I loved your description of the farmer couple, and yes, thats true and pure romance to, in its way. I respect that and especially witnessing the somewhat princessish ways and ideas of gender roles here in Hungary, I'll gladly recount it one of these days. It is, definitely, also and example of the strong heart within a relationship that keeps it running.

But whats the deal with putting down the other person's version? When I described my instinctive response to the separate bedrooms as feeling weird, I at length hemmed and hawed and explained why it might be that I feel this way or what the various reasons behind the reaction were (fear or an erratic tendency to generalise or just an unused-to-it-ness). I was honest both about my own reaction, and the relativation of it.

But y'all are reacting like we bit you in the ass and now you have to post at length and repetitively how great your idea of romance is and how silly the one Bella or I posted. Sorry but WTF?

I do like waking up next to my loved one, and she might still be asleep, or is just waking up too, and there's this moment where you just look at each other, or look at your lover sleeping. And, however "boring" or "harliquen romance" or unrealistic that may sound to you or Dagmaraka, that moment my heart runneth over. Its that brief moment before the day starts and you each have your own things to do and you have to switch into problem-solving, rational acting mode, and you are just purely yourself, and you have that moment to just feel.

I love it when I wake up and she smiles at me when saying "good morning..", like just me sleeping and waking up and being and doing nothing much especially or in particular is already just pure love-able. I have the same with my lover. Its moment like those that give comfort and wrap you in an invisible coating of warmth the rest of the day.

The same when she falls asleep. A. used to fall asleep on my lap, and I'd stroke her hair, night after night, and just looking down at her lying there, eyes closed and then falling asleep, gave so much -- enough to weather the daytime storms, the dreariness of work and life stress, the tremendous problems we faced, not least with each other -- it was the moment when you could experience, simply, without explanation, the love that was there, and that made it all allright.

When she fell asleep in bed, and had a bad dream, and I was not there yet, I could hear her moan or move, and I'd go to her, and lie next to her, and stroke her hair - and it was like a miracle - all that was needed was my touch, and she never woke up, but within moments she'd grow calm, quiet, and sleep peacefully again.

Those moments are to me - they're like the heart hidden in a flowerbud when the rest of life is the wild garden around.

So y'all may call it fake or unrealistic or doesnt-really-apply-in-actual-life or boring or harlequin or whatnot. For me, its a core truth that keeps a relationship running. So **** you.

sex and physical contact are different to men and women especially women in the long term.

To a woman those things are a weapon in their conrol arsenal and to men they are stand alone things with a life of their own.

Yeah, YOU'RE romantic in ways that REALLY count. As opposed obviously to those others. The ways that they are romantic in by implication DONT really count.

WTF is this? Seriously. I can understand defensive, but this is getting ridiculous.

nimh, how long have you been living with this woman?

It does sound like a harlequin romance, it really does, the way others have expressed themselves sound "weird" to you, like those who don't behave like you are missing out on something.

See it goes both ways. Except.....

For me personally, I couldn't care less what you think, because I know my marriage is strong as steel and if we never even saw each other again, we'd still be married for as long as we both were alive.

No defensiveness on my part sug.

What about people out there who are in a place in life where they really don't want to be joined at the hip, but they're afraid feeling that way means they don't love the other person enough. Unfortunately, in todays appearance obessesd, reality show watching society, many young people are getting their cues on romantic behavior from TV and media that tell them it's only real love if your legs are always shaved and he brings you trinkets. Like has been said ad nauseum now, no one is saying snuggling is wrong, bad or fattening. If I made you feel bad, sorry. But you didn't make me feel bad in the slightest. I've got my feet firmly planted in the reality of what sharing someones life really is.

Bear, as far as females using sex or whatever as a weapon...I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never, ever, EVER done that in my entire life.
I don't want a domestic, I want a partner. For me, flowers, candies, poems, love songs, baubles don't mean ****. If I WAS the type to use sex as a weapon, I'd be holding out for some stupid piece of jewelry, not a new front lawn with a patio we'll both sit on, in our own chairs, reading our own books, and enjoying each others company.

Heh, early on in our marriage, he was still reeling from his last wife, who never got enough of that crap. Last I heard she had lung cancer and a bunch jewelry and endless knick knacks that were just sitting there, not lifting a damn finger to help her get to the bathroom, or make her a bowl of soup. I own one piece of jewelry, a wedding band, but get all the care I need. I think it's a lot easier for many people to buy someone a bracelet than to wipe your loved ones ass when they can't do it themselves.

When I come home and the rug is clean and the laundry folded, that means I have more time to make a dinner he's really going to enjoy, and have the time to massage that freaking knot out of his shoulder he gets on a regular basis. If the bathrooms been cleaned, I'll also have time to give him a pedicure and work on that big toe with the painful ingrown nail.

You adore your wife bear, that's clear. I know she doesn't use sex as a weapon. Would YOU feel like a domestic if you tidied up for her before she came home, or like a loving husband? Just like the look my husband gets when he does that, I bet her sweet smile of thanks would be more than enough payment.

nimh...that was address soley to bear, in his response to his kidding me.

see, let me explain so you'll understand...

bear was kidding....ME.

bear made me laugh at his comment, because bear is funny and clever.

I responded to bear in a joking fashion.
I wasn't directing my comment to anyone but bear...as....a....joke....

You will note.....his response back to me....was also a joke.

People who like each other do that.

Why is it that Nimh's way of showing love is "harlequin" while yours is real?

Why isn't what Nimh does within the "reality of what sharing someones life really is?"

To me, and Nimh, that is part of what sharing someone's life is. Sorry if that offends your natural sense of what a good marriage and honest love is. Sorry if part of that life includes wanting to wake up to someone and fall asleep next to someone every day for the rest of your life.

Please. Get off your high horse. You are doing exactly to us what you accused us of doing to you. And you are trivializing what we feel is important. Just because it makes you happy to sleep elsewhere doesn't mean it makes any one else. And no one has said you love your husband any less because you do. But you seem to think that marriage with "harlequin romance" is somehow less because that's not how you do it.

Your marriage and your love is no more real or special than mine.

Each is what we make it and that should be enough.

uh......yes.....I do believe that what I have been saying all along......?

Is this mike on?

What?

That your marriage is better because you and your husband don't feel the need to sleep together?

Or that you know love better because your acts of love are more domestic and "real"?

Which one?

Because that's what I've been hearing.

And I'm pretty sure that's what Nimh's been hearing too.

Er, nimh does know what sharing life is all about.

Bella too.

The people like me who understand needing space aren't weird, or, less personally, the needing of it isn't weird, really.

Romance when real, however it is acted out, isn't harlequin.

Everybody, be happy.

You know, I'm tired of this being misunderstood, and in Bellas case, on purpose.

You just go ahead and think that I'm saying I'm better in some mysterious way.

You're like a dog with a bone Bella, but you've chewed all the meat away a few pages back.

Give it a rest the both of you.

Go sleep with your partner, sleep under the bed, sleep in the backyard, nobody cares.

my good friend was telling me her parents still fall asleep holding hands and entangled in each other's arms, more than 35 or 40 years since they met. i envy that, i think it's great.
but it's absolutely not for me. i'd probably kill someone if he tried to snuggle with me every night for 35 years (well, i'd kill after 3.5 weeks). but that's me and my ways. for them it's perfect. i need someone like me, though, good god, not too similar because then we'd kill each other too. so bella has her way and her ideas of love and chai has her way and her ideas of love. what's the big deal?

I think we are just talking about different types of people here and what they can live with....

Sure one side may look at the other like "your crazy!" and the other may look at the first and be like "your wacked"

Whatever.....

I understand, some people are different than me. And, hey! it's okay! Be different, but this is me and this is how I do things. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's understanding.

(right now, I'm in the separate house thing, thinking of someday living together, but are currently thinking a duplex. Yeah, I'm one of the ones that has severe sleep issues and I'm alot of "space" kind of person)

I easily see the duplex thing.

The real issue here is pretty clear to me. No matter who muddies it up with what life descriptions.

Chai is simply trying to show that her and her husband , actually having their own rooms and their own space is STILL a very loving very strong relationship.

And I have a feeling that the reason she is saying that is because, up until she introduced her description of her home and life, everyone was basically on the same bandwagon. " Sleep next to me. All night, and every morning wake up to me. That is what I find love to be"

None has said that , that is wrong.

Instead, chai simply stated that there are people who do differently, and still love each other the same way.
That not falling into a normal idea of romance isnt weird. It is pretty normal when you get down to the nitty gritty of marriages.

I mean.. come on.. the most romantic thing my husband has done was secure our small crop of bell peppers.
Most people I know would call that out right lazy.. instead of romantic.
But to me, that shows he sees what is important to me and helps me take care of it when I am not around. And that is the principal of any "romantic" idea. Doing something for the other person above your own needs.

I dont truly think anyone was trying to discredit anyone elses style of love.. desires.. romantic descriptions etc.

it is just separate examples, that are polar opposites.


Bottom line, we love our partners.
Even though I hate snuggling in the morning, love him watering my plants, and cant imagine going to sleep in a cold bed.

but.. thats just MY idea.


so.. go play with your toys everyone.
I think we all need a time out.
Go have sex or something..

Listen, I've spent decades with our books worked in together, our record albums intermixed, some of the books separate at desks. We had one tiny bathroom all that time, lucky re the world, spare re people who have, say, four. It was odd but good that that there were two doors to it, being between rooms. Meant that ex could chase our irish setter in circles....

Most of our time in that fairly small house was just naturally worked out, with little or no discussion, fair to both. We had two bedrooms, both tiny, and one was his writing room. Think 8 x 12. I eventually built a studio in the garage, another story.

Sometimes lives have different intimacies. What was a joy for me then would be a problem now. Humans vary from each other, and vary themselves over years.