Cycloptichorn wrote:Quote:
If you were a child faced with a life of poverty or the chance for a better life (with the risk of being mistreated), what would you want your parents to choose?
Immigrants often sacrifice a huge amount to give their children a better future. Often their children are the reason they are here. How do you choose between a life of poverty for your children... or a chance for a better life with the risk of harsh treatment?
The idea the harsh treatment of immigrants is a good solution to the problem... or even that it will reduce the problem is wrong.
This is the same reasoning behind the war on drugs; that putting users in jail will make the consequences so high that people will stop using drugs.
Many of us believe that it is valid to consider the effect that the main tool in the war on drugs, putting people in prison, has on families and communities. In discussing solutions to illegal drugs, or illegal immigration... it seems appropriate in a civilized society to search for compassionate responses.
Responses that rely on punishment are not just cruel, they are ineffective.
Harsh treatment of illegal immigrants and their families as a solution to the problem is immoral-- especially when the employers (who apparently were pretty evil people) are walking free. Their kids aren't being hurt for their crimes, nor should they.
You didn't answer my question:
You don't believe that the parents bear any responsibility for their child's suffering? They knew they were breaking the law by sneaking into America. They knew the consequences of getting caught.
If you are willing to answer, I'm willing to go on with the discussion. But I'll say this in advance: taking a gamble to better your or your kids' life does
not absolve you of responsibility for what happens when that gamble goes wrong.
Cycloptichorn
Cyclo... you are setting up a trick question. You are using the term 'responsible' as a catch all and you will change what it means as a rhetorical trap. So I think it is fair to insist that we define exactly what the responsibility is for
First, I added back the context of my full post because I would like readers to consider it as a whole... not just one sentence.
Now, let me make my position very clear, without falling in to your verbal trap.
The form of law enforcement action is wrong for two reasons.
1- It hurts families, and communities and kids in a way that far exceeds the crime.
2- It is ineffective. All they achieve is to sate a vindictive need for punishment. They don't stop illegal immigration... and they actually hurt US workers by making the immigrant community more vulnerable and easy to exploit.
These raids are cruel and ineffective and they should stop. The ICE is responsible for planning these raids and they have the sole ability to stop them.
Here is how I answer several parts of responsibility.
-Are the parents responsible for breaking the law... absolutely.
-Are the parents responsible for a flawed policy toward immigration that relies on punishment? No.
-Are they responsible for incompetent and cruel conduct by the ICE agents. Absolutely not.
Are you really going to argue that police, when they are responding to crime, don't have responsibility for the excessiveness of their action, or the impact on a community? This would give police the ability to do pretty much anything without considering the impact on anyone.
