2
   

Defensive gun use you won't hear about.

 
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 12:02 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori
Quote:
Yoshihiro Hattori (服部剛丈 Hattori Yoshihiro) (November 22, 1975 - October 17, 1992) was a Japanese exchange student residing in Baton Rouge, LA, United States at the time of his death. Hattori was on his way to a Halloween party when he erred on the address and entered the wrong suburban property. The property owner, Rodney Peairs, mortally wounded Hattori with gunfire, thinking he was trespassing with criminal intent. The controversial homicide, and Peairs subsequently being acquitted in the state court of Louisiana, received worldwide attention.


[quote]After the trial, Peairs told the press that he would never again own a gun.[/quote]

Quote:
Shortly after the Hattori case, a Japanese exchange student, Takuma Ito , and a Japanese-American student, Go Matsura, were killed in a carjacking in San Francisco, California, and another Japanese exchange student, Masakazu Kuriyama was shot in Concord, California. Many Japanese reacted to these deaths as being similar symptoms of a sick society; TV Asahi commentator Takashi Wada put the feelings into words by asking, "But now, which society is more mature? The idea that you protect people by shooting guns is barbarian."

1.65 million Japanese and one million Americans signed a petition urging stronger gun controls in the US; the petition was presented to Ambassador Walter Mondale on November 22, 1993, who delivered it to President Bill Clinton. Shortly thereafter, the Brady Bill was passed, and on December 3, 1993, Mondale presented Hattori's parents with a copy. [7] [8]

Questions of implicit racism in the acquittal of Peairs were further stimulated when, shortly afterwards, a homeowner named Todd Vriesenga, inside his house in Grand Haven, MI, similarly shot and killed a 17 year old named Adam Provencal through the front door. Vriesenga received a 16 to 24 month term for "reckless use of a firearm resulting in death", causing both Japanese and Asian-American advocacy groups to speculate on whether the difference between Vriesenga's conviction and Peairs' acquittal was related to the race of the victims. Ironically, other groups publicly stated that Vriesenga should have been convicted of the more severe charge of felony manslaughter.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 04:07 am
Baldimo wrote:
Check this book by John Lott. .......

......Its a little dry seeing as how he is statics guy but it holds loads of information that is interesting.


I'm very sorry, but I saw absolutely nothing in that Wikipedia article which supports the idea that legal guns are used a million times a year in self defense. Nothing.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 04:15 am
cjhsa wrote:
and most evens [of self-defense with guns] go unrecorded, far and away more than those that do.


That is a ridiculous statement. If someone has to use their legal gun in self-defense, it means a crime has been committed against them. Why shouldn't they report it. What do law abiding citizens do when the bodies of the intruders lay in their living room? Load the corpses in the pickup truck and dump them outside of town because they don't want to file a report?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 06:05 am
It seems clear to me that I am arguing with a bunch of hysterical idiots.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 06:33 am
kelticwizard wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
and most evens [of self-defense with guns] go unrecorded, far and away more than those that do.


That is a ridiculous statement. If someone has to use their legal gun in self-defense, it means a crime has been committed against them. Why shouldn't they report it. What do law abiding citizens do when the bodies of the intruders lay in their living room? Load the corpses in the pickup truck and dump them outside of town because they don't want to file a report?


If a body is lying around your living room from someone you shot you have to report it. What doesn't go reported is when no shots are fired but a crook is still run off. I know I would call the police so that I could file a report but not everybody is me.

Does the defensive use of a gun mean someone has to be dead? I would call successful use of a gun in a defensive situation truly successful if I kept a crime from being committed and didn't have to shoot someone.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 06:57 am
Baldimo wrote:
I know I would call the police so that I could file a report but not everybody is me.


Of course you would. Even if a shot is not fired, someone was still on your property and if enough reports to the police come in, that means greater police presence in an area, which does deter crime.

Not to mention that the intruder would still be in the neighborhood, endangering your neighbors and friends.

True, there might be some people who don't report the incident, even though it makes sense that they should. But the fact remains that according to what I have read, a check of the police report statistics shows that the reports reveal these incidents are nowhere near a million. Or half a million. Or even 100,000. Even in large states, the numbers seem to be more in the dozens than the hundreds.

And I can personally vouch for the fact that the gun supporters in the early nineties were calling up radio stations and claiming 250,000 of these self-defense incidents. Well, the crime rate hasn't changed that much since the early nineties-how did the self-defense incidents increase from 250,000 to a million?

Sure looks from here that somebody is making up statistics to support their position.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 07:19 am
Surely a simply survey would be adequate to corroborate the 1,000,000 incident claim.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 07:39 am
I'd rather make up stats to protect the innocent than protect the guilty.

But that point is lost on antis.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 08:21 am
cjhsa wrote:
I'm a gun owning, gay, black guy...

Wait ... what?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 08:22 am
Baldimo wrote:
If a body is lying around your living room from someone you shot you have to report it.

I was afraid of that.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 08:28 am
cjhsa wrote:
I'd rather make up stats to protect the innocent than protect the guilty.

But that point is lost on antis.

That you would make up stats at all speaks volumes.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2007 11:36 am
I have made up nothing. Watching you spin is hilarious though.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 07:41 am
Quote:
TX: Armed robber shot where it hurts: "An armed man attempting to rob a local car lot ... Ends up being shot himself that's according to Amarillo Police. Officers tell us shortly after 1:30 this morning the owner of Jimbat Autos confronted an armed man breaking into one of his cars. Police say the suspect started assaulting the owner and that's when he shot the suspect in the groin area. The suspect was taken to the hospital after being apprehended."


Quote:
MI: Store manager cleared in shooting : "No charges will be brought against a Grand Rapids store manager who fatally shot a man during an attempted robbery. Around 10 p.m. Friday, three men walked into Alger Heights Foods at Alger Street and Eastern Avenue and attempted to rob the business. The suspects tied up employees and put them in a back room. The store manager pulled out his gun and shot one of the robbers, Michael Sams of Chicago, who had a gun. The other two men fled the scene and are still on the run. Kent County Prosecutor William Forsyth says he reviewed the police report and surveillance video taken inside the store during the incident and made his decision relatively quickly. He told 24 Hour News 8 the store manager was protecting his own life and the lives of his coworkers."


Quote:
Realistic females in Colorado: "Stop! I have a gun. Leave my house," shouted the 11-year-old girl. And with the words barely out of her mouth, Noel Smith opened fire. Any intruder would be dead on his back, but this was just practice. Noel, along with seven other women, was practicing her marksmanship at a session of Girls and Their Guns, a summer-long program that teaches women how to shoot and about gun safety. On the crisp Saturday morning at the Minturn firing range, shots echoed across the valley leaving the smell of gunpowder lingering in the air. Noel cocked her head, squinted her eyes, placed one leg in front of the other and squeezed the trigger. Five women lined up next to her in variations of the same stance. "I've always wanted to know what guns were like and how they were used," said Noel, who's been shooting for nearly two years and learned of the program from her karate teacher, Mathew Bayley, who teaches the gun class. "When I heard he was doing this, I really wanted to try it. ... I've been stuck to it ever since."
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 08:11 pm
I have always found that 1 million self defense uses per year claim to be fascinating. There were 5.2 million reported crimes last year in which the victim saw the perpetrator. Of those 3.5 million were attempted or threatened violence.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus05.pdf

As near as I can find the largest % of an adult population with conceal carry permits in any states is about 7.65%. Most states have less than 5% of their adults with a permit. If we assume those 1 million self defense uses were part of that 3.5 million it would mean that your odds of being threatened with violence are way more if you have a conceal carry permit than if you don't.

Then of course maybe all these crimes that were stopped happened in a person's home. There again, we can look at the crime statistics.
about 25% of the violent crimes occurred at or near someone's home. But wait. The completion rate of the violent crimes was actually HIGHER when it occurred in the persons home. 28% of the completed violent crimes occurred at or near a person's home. So in other words, you were more likely to stop a crime away from home than you are in your home.

So, 730,000 crimes were stopped in people's homes. 2.449 million were stopped outside person's homes.

That leads us to some really odd stats. Either people that carry guns are a lot more likely to be attacked or people that don't have guns never prevent an attack in their home. Lets for a moment consider that all attempted crimes are committed and the perpetrator never knows who has a gun. 50% of homes have guns and 7% of people carry guns. That means 370,000 homeowners stopped crimes and 171,000 people carrying guns did. That would leave us with 540,000 crimes stopped with a gun. But that again is a hard one to buy since it would require that EVERY homeowner with a gun actually used that gun. Half of those 750,000 attacks prevented weren't at the home but near it. Many of those would have occurred as the homeowner was on his way home and he wouldn't yet have his gun.

Now the argument will be that many gun owners don't report their use to prevent a crime. That may be so but why would a gun owner's rate of not reporting be different from a non gun owner? Even if it was different then it would require that gun owners are more likely to be attacked.

No matter how you parse the stats it seems that if you don't have a gun you are less likely to be victim of an attempted robbery, rape or assault if the 1 million figure is true.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 05:57 am
If you are poor and ugly, I can imagine that might be true. If you have something worth protecting, you might wanna be able to do that.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2007 02:07 pm
Quote:
Oregon: Metal thief caught by gun owner: "A man wanted for methamphetamine possession was caught Wednesday morning allegedly stealing metal from an auto salvage yard. The owner of U-Pull-It says he caught 29-year-old Neal Anthony Lee stealing, fired a shot into the ground and chased him across the highway. Clackamas County deputies say they found Lee a short while later hiding behind a tree and covered in grease. "There's not any car part out here that's worth a life, but I'm gonna let them know that I'm here and that I mean business. I'm not here to support their habit," owner Ron Barber told KOIN News 6. Lee was arrested for burglary and an outstanding warrant in Multnomah County for meth possession. He's expected Thursday in court. Barber says he plans to install an electric fence."



Quote:
NM: Carjack attempt leads to shooting; two injured: "A man who police believe had already stolen one truck Sunday evening allegedly went back for a second one prompting gunplay between the would-be thief and his victim. Officials say that the first carjacking occurred at a buffet restaurant on Coors when the man forced his way into a Nissan Titan and forced a family out of the truck at gunpoint. Shortly later the same evening, the man spotted a second Nissan Titan at a Walgreen store at Coors and Central, but the second victim was armed and the two exchanged gunfire, with each of them being struck. 'The victim decided to take that [situation] into his own hands, but unfortunately the victim was shot,' said APD spokeswoman Trish Hoffman. Both men were transported to an Albuquerque hospital. Police expect they will both survive."


Quote:
Suspects in armed robbery have law enforcement ties: "The NBC 10 investigators uncovered new information about a fatal Philadelphia restaurant robbery caught on cell phone video. Both suspects are from families who work in law enforcement, NBC 10 reported. Authorities said two people tried to hold up Sunrise Breakfast Thursday morning, but the owner shot them before they got away. According to police sources, the man who was wounded and can be seen on the ground in cell phone video is the son of a Philadelphia police officer. Police identified him as 24-year-old Gary Williams. Investigators said Williams is one of two men who tried to rob the West Oak Lane restaurant at gunpoint. But during a gun battle the owner, Jason Lee, shot and wounded Williams. Also during the early morning robbery attempt, police said Lee shot and killed, 20-year-old Cornell Toombs. The NBC 10 investigators have learned that Toombs also has very close ties to law enforcement. Prison officials at the Curran Fromhold Correction Facility in Philadelphia, confirmed Toombs' mother works there as a corrections officer. Police said Toombs had jumped over the counter with his gun drawn when the owner shot and killed him. I referred to this story on 10th. It appears that two black guys unwisely took on a Korean sharp-shooter who has killed robbers before. A lot of Koreans are pretty tough guys
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/21/2019 at 05:19:43