1
   

I'm not a Christian but I play one on TV.

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 05:36 am
So what was the schedule?

Thursday night through Sunday night? The ladies arrived on Easter Monday?

Joe(this is going to ruin the sunrise service participation)Nation
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 05:55 am
In between the crucifixion and the Resurrection were three days and three nights in the Biblical chronology.

He died shortly before sunset, the day before Passover.

There was Passover day.

There was a day in which some of the women prepared spices, etc to anoint His body. These would have taken time to purchase and prepare, including travel time (no cars back then) and transporting. After this it is said that they rested on the Sabbath.

There was the Sabbath.

He rose after the Sabbath. That next morning is when the disciples found the tomb empty.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 06:12 am
real life wrote:
Nowhere does the Bible give the timeline you describe. Catholic tradition is where that is found.


As noted earlier in this thread, the timeline listed in the Bible is exactly as he described.

You keep making claims about what the bible does or doesn't say but when challanged to back up your claims you run off and hide.

Your previous claims have all be disproven and each time you return pretend the posts that prove your previous claims wrong aren't there.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 12:12 pm
fishin wrote:
real life wrote:
Nowhere does the Bible give the timeline you describe. Catholic tradition is where that is found.


As noted earlier in this thread, the timeline listed in the Bible is exactly as he described.

You keep making claims about what the bible does or doesn't say but when challanged to back up your claims you run off and hide.

Your previous claims have all be disproven and each time you return pretend the posts that prove your previous claims wrong aren't there.


Nowhere in the Bible will you find it stated that Jesus was crucified on Friday and rose on Sunday.

You will find the events I listed. Look them up if you don't believe me.

Jesus stated that it would be three days and three nights. The events as described in the four gospel are in agreement with this, not with Fri night to Sun morning.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 03:02 pm
That's not a cogent response to Fishin's criticism. Where in the bible does it state that Jesus said it would be three days and three nighs?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 03:07 pm
real life wrote:
fishin wrote:
real life wrote:
Actually if you read the four Gospels together, you find that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights, not 'just over 24 hours'.


According to Matthew 27:45-60 Jesus died after 9 hours on the cross. His body was lowered and, then "in preperation" and, that evening (the "eve of the Sabbath"), placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. That is one full day.

The next day (the Sabbath) he remains in the tomb (and guarded by soldiers as ordered by Pilate).

Then, according to Matthew 28:1-7 , The morning after the Sabbath Mary Magdalene and Mary return to the tomb and are told by an angel that Jesus has risen and isn't in the tomb. The day after the Sabbath being "the 3rd Day".

Mark 15 and 16, Luke 23 and 24 and John 19 and 20 repeat the same sequence of events and timeline. I have no idea where you get that the body was supposedly inside the tomb for 3 full days and 3 full nights. All 4 gospels have his body being placed in the tomb on the eve of the Sabbath, the guards watching the sealed tomb on the day of the Sabbath and Jesus no longer being in the tomb on the morning following the Sabbath - roughly 36 hours.


Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


In this set of quotes, Fishin' demonstrated the timeline which comes from the alleged gospels, and your only response was to allege, without citation, that Jesus said he would be in the tomb three days and three nights.

You failed to contradict the chronology provided by Fishin', and you have so far failed to provide a scriptural citation in which Jesus says he would be three days and nights in the tomb.

This, of course, is you MO on the evolution threads. When you get called on your BS, you just go mute for a few pages, and then again dredge up your previous nonsensical statement, and continue to provide no evidence.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 05:22 pm
real life wrote:
...There was Passover day.....


Passover is 8 days long. Which Passover day are you referring to?
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 08:40 pm
real life wrote:
He died shortly before sunset, the day before Passover

There was Passover day.

There was a day in which some of the women prepared spices, etc to anoint His body. These would have taken time to purchase and prepare, including travel time (no cars back then) and transporting. After this it is said that they rested on the Sabbath.


If you had read your bible you would have seen that all of these are in fact, all one day. From Luke 23:44-56 (again!):

"44 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour,
45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two.
46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
47 The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man."
48 When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away.
49 But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

50 Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man,
51 who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea and he was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body.
53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid.
54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it.
56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes.
But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
"

Verse 44 mentions the 9th hour as the time of his death. The "6th Hour" would be noon and the "9th hour" corresponds to 3PM in the time system we use today.

You'll note that there is no change of days between verses 49 and 50 - the biblical transition from recounting the death of Jesus to recounting the burial.

Verse 54 says "It was preperation day". (Preperation day (Nisan 14) is the 1st day of the 8 days of Passover as mentioned in Exodus 12:15 "For a seven-day period shall you eat matzos [unleavened bread], but on the previous day [the Preparation Day] you shall nullify the leaven from your homes; for anyone who eats leavened food - that soul shall be cut off from Israel, from the first day [Nisan 15] to the seventh day [Nisan 21]."). Jesus was crucified and died on preperation day, which is where the term "Lamb of God" comes from.

In verse 56 it says the women prepared their spices that same day AFTER Jesus' body was already in the tomb. The spices weren't to be used until later. And contrary to your assertion that they would have to go buy them, Luke tells us that they went home to prepare them. No shopping or transporting involved.

Quote:
There was the Sabbath.


But not just any Sabbath - it was the annual high Sabbath - the 1st day of unleavened bread; aka the 2nd day of Passover.

Quote:
He rose after the Sabbath. That next morning is when the disciples found the tomb empty.


And here is where we find the intended use for the spices. As Luke recounts in 24:1-3 "On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus."

The "first day of the week" being the day after the Sabbath.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2007 08:47 pm
Setanta wrote:
real life wrote:
fishin wrote:
real life wrote:
Actually if you read the four Gospels together, you find that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights, not 'just over 24 hours'.


According to Matthew 27:45-60 Jesus died after 9 hours on the cross. His body was lowered and, then "in preperation" and, that evening (the "eve of the Sabbath"), placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. That is one full day.

The next day (the Sabbath) he remains in the tomb (and guarded by soldiers as ordered by Pilate).

Then, according to Matthew 28:1-7 , The morning after the Sabbath Mary Magdalene and Mary return to the tomb and are told by an angel that Jesus has risen and isn't in the tomb. The day after the Sabbath being "the 3rd Day".

Mark 15 and 16, Luke 23 and 24 and John 19 and 20 repeat the same sequence of events and timeline. I have no idea where you get that the body was supposedly inside the tomb for 3 full days and 3 full nights. All 4 gospels have his body being placed in the tomb on the eve of the Sabbath, the guards watching the sealed tomb on the day of the Sabbath and Jesus no longer being in the tomb on the morning following the Sabbath - roughly 36 hours.


Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


In this set of quotes, Fishin' demonstrated the timeline which comes from the alleged gospels, and your only response was to allege, without citation, that Jesus said he would be in the tomb three days and three nights.

You failed to contradict the chronology provided by Fishin', and you have so far failed to provide a scriptural citation in which Jesus says he would be three days and nights in the tomb.

This, of course, is you MO on the evolution threads. When you get called on your BS, you just go mute for a few pages, and then again dredge up your previous nonsensical statement, and continue to provide no evidence.


Joe Nation gave the reference a few pages back. You need it repeated?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 04:05 am
No, but apparently you do.

I gave the verse and now it's up to you to try and squeeze or stretch all those three days and three nights into two-- Friday night, Saturday (that's one), Saturday night to Sunday morning (that's two)

Oops that's all.

You can't count Friday day because Jesus wasn't "in the heart of the earth", bucko, and I know that's important to you.

Meanwhile, it's only important to literalists as you that everything match up precisely, to the rest of us it's just another story.

Joe(relax, you are basing your existence on a myth)Nation
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 08:00 am
Joe Nation wrote:
No, but apparently you do.

I gave the verse and now it's up to you to try and squeeze or stretch all those three days and three nights into two-- Friday night, Saturday (that's one), Saturday night to Sunday morning (that's two)

Oops that's all.

You can't count Friday day because Jesus wasn't "in the heart of the earth", bucko, and I know that's important to you.

Meanwhile, it's only important to literalists as you that everything match up precisely, to the rest of us it's just another story.

Joe(relax, you are basing your existence on a myth)Nation


Where in the Bible does it give a Friday-Sunday scenario? It doesn't.

There are three days:

Passover

the day they prepared the spices

the Sabbath

Dont kid yourself that they could have went to see the tomb where He was, then traveled back from outside the city where He was crucified, already had the spices waiting at home to prepare for a dead body (are you kidding?) and prepared them in the 3 hours before the Sabbath started.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 11:17 am
"They could have went . . ."--? ! ? ! ?

You do your already feeble arguments no service by butchering what is ostensibly your maternal tongue. Even if one accepts your disingenuous and self-serving scenario, you still only have three days (the first and the last being only partial days), and two nights.

You have referred to the passage which JoeN quoted. JoeN quoted it to demonstrate that you lied when you claimed that Jesus stated that he would be three days and three nights in the tomb. The passage quoted is not attributed to your boy Hey-Zeus. Nevertheless, even in giving you the benefit of the doubt (and my experience of your rhetorical performances at this site over a period of years suggest to me that you do not deserve it), one finds that your exegesis yields two partial days, one full day, and two nights--not only not remotely close to three days and three nights, but in fact, very close to, almost exactly, the roughly 36 hours to which Fishin' referred in an earlier post.

You really know no shame, do ya "real life?"
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 11:27 am
real life, in post #2546032, wrote:
Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


And, 'real life" has repeated this claim. However, as he demonstrates himself, this did not take place. So, either Hey-Zeus spoke of something entirely different in Matthew 12:40, or, he was a liar--at the least, given to egregious exaggeration. So tell, us, "real life," which was it--was your boy a liar, or just someone who commonly indulged stretchers?

What, however, is most likely, and what "real life" will never admit to, is that the "gospels" were written well after the events they falsely claim to chronicle, which accounts for the egregious historical and geographical errors, and the seriously divergent accounts. So, i actually don't believe that your boy Hey-Zeus was a liar (if he even actually ever existed), i just acknowledge that the snake-oil salesmen who cobbled together the "gospels" did a piss poor job of it.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:30 pm
Setanta wrote:
"They could have went . . ."--? ! ? ! ?

You do your already feeble arguments no service by butchering what is ostensibly your maternal tongue. Even if one accepts your disingenuous and self-serving scenario, you still only have three days (the first and the last being only partial days), and two nights.

You have referred to the passage which JoeN quoted. JoeN quoted it to demonstrate that you lied when you claimed that Jesus stated that he would be three days and three nights in the tomb. The passage quoted is not attributed to your boy Hey-Zeus. Nevertheless, even in giving you the benefit of the doubt (and my experience of your rhetorical performances at this site over a period of years suggest to me that you do not deserve it), one finds that your exegesis yields two partial days, one full day, and two nights--not only not remotely close to three days and three nights, but in fact, very close to, almost exactly, the roughly 36 hours to which Fishin' referred in an earlier post.

You really know no shame, do ya "real life?"


What are you talking about? Joe N speculated that Jesus was speaking metaphorically. Joe did not say that the passage is not attributed to Jesus.

The passage quoted, Matt 12:40 , is indeed attributed to Christ.

38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The timeline:(once more)

Jesus was crucified on the eve of Passover. His death recorded as having taken place at the 9th hour (3PM).

Joseph went back into the city after His death, and asked Pilate for the body. Having received permission, he returned to the crucifixion site and interred the body in a tomb he owned, which was nearby. This all took some time, so the interment took place just as the Passover was to begin (6PM).

The first day of Passover is both a day and a night (24 hours).

The day after Passover the women prepared spices. There would not have been time for them after the death at 3PM to travel back to the city, purchase, transport and prepare spices in the 3 hours that remained of the day. They would not have done so on the Passover either. To say that they would have had burial spices in their homes already on a regular basis is rather absurd. They would have needed to purchase them somewhere in the city, transport them home and prepare them, the preparation process is a somewhat involved process. It ain't Insta-Spice.

The day after Passover is both a day and a night (24 hours).

The next day was the weekly Sabbath, a day and a night (24 hours).

The day after the Sabbath, the women brought the spices to the tomb, but found it empty.

-----------------------------------------------------

There is no support in scripture for a Friday-Sunday timeline.

You may believe it if you wish.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 02:35 pm
real life wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The timeline:(once more)

Jesus was crucified on the eve of Passover. His death recorded as having taken place at the 9th hour (3PM).

Joseph went back into the city after His death, and asked Pilate for the body. Having received permission, he returned to the crucifixion site and interred the body in a tomb he owned, which was nearby. This all took some time, so the interment took place just as the Passover was to begin (6PM).

The first day of Passover is both a day and a night (24 hours).

The day after Passover the women prepared spices. There would not have been time for them after the death at 3PM to travel back to the city, purchase, transport and prepare spices in the 3 hours that remained of the day. They would not have done so on the Passover either. To say that they would have had burial spices in their homes already on a regular basis is rather absurd. They would have needed to purchase them somewhere in the city, transport them home and prepare them, the preparation process is a somewhat involved process. It ain't Insta-Spice.

The day after Passover is both a day and a night (24 hours).


The next day was the weekly Sabbath, a day and a night (24 hours).

The day after the Sabbath, the women brought the spices to the tomb, but found it empty.

-----------------------------------------------------

There is no support in scripture for a Friday-Sunday timeline.

You may believe it if you wish.


There is absolutely NO support anywhere in the Bible for your insertion of two days here but you don't seem to have any issues with doing that. Your interpretation of biblical events a wish in it's entireity. In fact it is in direct contradiction to Luke 23:54-56.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 02:46 pm
Not only that, his math sucks. He has the boy crucified, and dead by 3PM, and then laid out at 6PM--from which he jumps to an unsubstantiated claim that it's "a day and a night (24 hours)." But he doesn't demonstrate that 24 hours have taken place. Additionally, of course, the boy Hey-Zeus was not in the tomb until sometime after 6PM by his "timeline."

But the most flagrant violation in his timeline is that he has the day of Passover as a separate day from the Sabbath, despite the scriptural evidence.

Once again, as Fishin' has pointed out, there's only about 36 hours accounted for--from late on the Friday until early on the Sunday--and that only leaves two nights.

It is interesting that one of the most holier-than-thou christians at this site is so obsessed with diddling the scriptural record that he will lie so transparently.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 03:00 pm
Setanta wrote:
Not only that, his math sucks. He has the boy crucified, and dead by 3PM, and then laid out at 6PM--from which he jumps to an unsubstantiated claim that it's "a day and a night (24 hours)."


Wrong. I stated that Christ was crucified on the eve of Passover i.e. the day before, you know, like Christmas Eve is the day before Christmas. Get it?
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 04:59 pm
If it's the eve before Passover begins, and Passover lasts 8 days, then the day after Passover is 9 days later.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:01 pm
jespah wrote:
If it's the eve before Passover begins, and Passover lasts 8 days, then the day after Passover is 9 days later.


Don't go confusing 'em with facts now! Laughing
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:20 pm
So sorry. Want some hamentaschen?
0 Replies
 
 

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