1
   

I'm not a Christian but I play one on TV.

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2007 09:09 pm
Oh geez, sorry for the big black box! How'd that happen?

It's supposed to be Caravaggio's painting of Doubting Thomas, it's a great one.
0 Replies
 
2PacksAday
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2007 09:42 pm
There was John the Baptist, son of Elizabeth....and then there was John the Apostle one of the 12 disciples...confusing, yes, lots of Mary's and Johns around then....but the latter John is the one that is normally given credit for writing "John" and as being..."the one that Jesus loved".

Lazarus I don't know much about, I think he was a poor man?....that had a sister, or was a close friend of Mary of Bethany...who could or could not also be Mary Magdalene.

Heh, big help huh.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 01:38 am
fishin wrote:
real life wrote:
Actually if you read the four Gospels together, you find that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights, not 'just over 24 hours'.


According to Matthew 27:45-60 Jesus died after 9 hours on the cross. His body was lowered and, then "in preperation" and, that evening (the "eve of the Sabbath"), placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. That is one full day.

The next day (the Sabbath) he remains in the tomb (and guarded by soldiers as ordered by Pilate).

Then, according to Matthew 28:1-7 , The morning after the Sabbath Mary Magdalene and Mary return to the tomb and are told by an angel that Jesus has risen and isn't in the tomb. The day after the Sabbath being "the 3rd Day".

Mark 15 and 16, Luke 23 and 24 and John 19 and 20 repeat the same sequence of events and timeline. I have no idea where you get that the body was supposedly inside the tomb for 3 full days and 3 full nights. All 4 gospels have his body being placed in the tomb on the eve of the Sabbath, the guards watching the sealed tomb on the day of the Sabbath and Jesus no longer being in the tomb on the morning following the Sabbath - roughly 36 hours.


Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 05:45 am
Quote:
Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


He did?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 06:00 am
Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


He did?


yeah, he got the special weekend deal from motel 666


oh boy, going straight to hell (again) for that joke
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 06:03 am
the most obvious answer to this whole problem is that the jews might be right

the messiah has not yet come and jesus was simply a prophet

an earthly buried in a tomb prophet
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 07:04 am
real life wrote:

Jesus himself said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.


I see. And your reference for that is??? First it's "if you read the four gospels together..." which was absolutely wrong and now you claim it comes form soemwhere else but again, you have no reference to support your statement.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 08:48 am
He's going to tell you Matt 12:40.

But maybe that was a metaphor.


Joe(That's because it's all metaphor)Nation
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 09:27 am
Joe Nation wrote:
He's going to tell you Matt 12:40.

But maybe that was a metaphor.


Joe(That's because it's all metaphor)Nation


*nods* I'd think it a metaphor myself since the earth, as we all know, doesn't have a heart. Wink

Matthew 12:40 reads "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Now Jonas, as we know, was not dead while in the belly of the whale. If we are to believe the bible he was released unharmed onto land after his 3 day ordeal.

So would a metaphoric passage be referring to the time period Jesus would be dead before arising? Or the time his body lay in the tomb? Or did the 3 days/nights start tickng when Jesus was seized at Gethsemane in the evening after the Last Supper?? From the time of the betrayal agreement made by Judas? Or was Matthew 12:40 referring to some other 3 day/3 night ordeal entirely?

If we are to take the literal view the latter choice has to be correct. To be "...as Jonas...", Jesus couldn't be dead (or even harmed) during the 3 day/3 night ordeal.

So many possibilities...
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 10:05 am
This is a fascinating discussion. As a fallen Catholic, who still goes to church every damned Sunday, all I have to offer for enlightenment is the Nicene Creed. It goes a little like this:

Quote:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.



I was always taught that the body of Christ ascended into heaven, Not just his spirit. Finding the remains of Christ would be hard for Catholic theologians to explain.

This is an excerpt from a sermon given by a Catholic priest on Ascension Sunday 2004:

Quote:
In the ascension, the church celebrates a great mystery: the stripped, tortured, humiliated, executed but now resurrected body of a wrongfully convicted criminal is taken into the heart of God. In the ascension, we affirm that the cruelty of empire cannot erase the vulnerable body of the Crucified. That body may be absent to us but it is eternally present in God who beckons us forward into the way of self-giving love.
Source.

He argues that the ascension of Christ's body is escential to the fulfillment of the promise God made to us.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 10:43 am
This is all very instructive and amusing (save me a good seat, Djjd), but why has no one here asked a very obvious question. How do these yobs know that they've found the tomb of "Jesus." Do they mean so Mexican dude who, bizarrely, got buried in Palestine?

What they're going on is that the tomb was, allegedly, marked with the name Yeshuah. Walk into the center of Jerusalem two thousand years ago, at passover, and throw a handful of pebbles into the crowd--odds are, you'd have hit a dozen or more "Joshuahs."

They got nothing--but then, they are doing a excellent promotional job, and getting folks stirred up--so, all they got is a paying, honest-to-god cash cow.

Djjd, help me remember to bring along a lot of popcorn--we shouldn't have any trouble popping it . . .
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 10:46 am
Quite right, fine sir. I don't think that was boomerang's question, though. She's asking what if.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 11:04 am
Setanta wrote:
Djjd, help me remember to bring along a lot of popcorn--we shouldn't have any trouble popping it . . .


and lot's of ice tea Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 01:02 pm
Well, only the Christians would be screwed if they found the bones of Christ. The Jews have all the tombs of their prophets, and the Muslims, too. In fact, I'm sitting here wondering if there is another religion which has at it's core, the ascension of it's founder. Christianity has not one, but two, don't forget the Assumption of Mary. (she had to wait until she was dead.)

Of course, not all Christians believe that Mary was assumed into heaven. (Sister Elephantina would cry out) Rather like the Sunnis and the Shi'a, there is a disagreement as to who is disappeared.

It's a many layered myth including the Violet Flame
Joe(a cake for your consumption, accent on the CON)Nation
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 04:58 pm
I'm not sure that christians couldn't work around a discovery that Christ's body remained on earth. There'd be some 'splainin' to do, no doubt. After all, if god didn't exist, people would invent him again, or some such...
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 06:50 pm
Me too, Swimpy. I'm sure they could work around it.

I can't imagine that a few bones would destroy a religion.

Interesting about Mary, Joe. Is it believed that her actual physical body rose to heaven? One of the new-old-found tombs is for Mary.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2007 07:06 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Well, only the Christians would be screwed if they found the bones of Christ. The Jews have all the tombs of their prophets, and the Muslims, too. In fact, I'm sitting here wondering if there is another religion which has at it's core, the ascension of it's founder. Christianity has not one, but two, don't forget the Assumption of Mary. (she had to wait until she was dead.)

Of course, not all Christians believe that Mary was assumed into heaven. (Sister Elephantina would cry out) Rather like the Sunnis and the Shi'a, there is a disagreement as to who is disappeared.

It's a many layered myth including the Violet Flame
Joe(a cake for your consumption, accent on the CON)Nation


There is nothing about the assumption of Mary in the Bible. Only one sect (Roman Catholic) hold that Mary was bodily taken into heaven, and even this view was late in appearing in the traditions of the Catholics.

You'll find nothing about it in scripture or in the writings of the early church leaders.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2007 12:46 am
But that's the fun of being a Catholic, you get so much more to believe than in your basic Protestant model. For example, you get the Litany of the Saints, you can direct your prayers through a proper conduit like St. Anthony or St. Jude, rather than just asking God to subvert the Natural Laws just for your benefit. And there's the whole subject of exorcism: Satan is for Catholics just as real as Jesus, and there are a whole series of occult powers drifting about that must be dealt with.

And let's not forget Transubstantiation. That's not just bread and wine, bubbie, that's the actual physical flesh and blood those Catholics are sharing right before sitting down to a nice Sunday morning breakfast.

Gotta go.

Joe(next time we look at praying for indulgences)Nation
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2007 07:56 am
I don't think you can call the Catholic Church a sect, dear.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2007 08:04 am
Joe Nation wrote:
But that's the fun of being a Catholic, you get so much more to believe than in your basic Protestant model. For example, you get the Litany of the Saints, you can direct your prayers through a proper conduit like St. Anthony or St. Jude, rather than just asking God to subvert the Natural Laws just for your benefit. And there's the whole subject of exorcism: Satan is for Catholics just as real as Jesus, and there are a whole series of occult powers drifting about that must be dealt with.

And let's not forget Transubstantiation. That's not just bread and wine, bubbie, that's the actual physical flesh and blood those Catholics are sharing right before sitting down to a nice Sunday morning breakfast.

Gotta go.

Joe(next time we look at praying for indulgences)Nation


Were you raised Catholic, Joe?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/26/2024 at 11:20:15