What/Who is the Holy Spirit?

I read all your sermon Rex. Suggest you leave out the physics, lest someone picks you up on basic errors.

Raul are you threatening me with the wrath of Allah? For what? For asking a question? for preferring Christianity to Islam?

What I said was that I am not sure Islam treats others with respect. And your response strengthens that belief.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I read all your sermon Rex. Suggest you leave out the physics, lest someone picks you up on basic errors.

Raul are you threatening me with the wrath of Allah? For what? For asking a question? for preferring Christianity to Islam?

What I said was that I am not sure Islam treats others with respect. And your response strengthens that belief.

How? I was pointing out that manners and behavior will hold the most weight on the Day of Judgement. Not to mention 'respect' is one of the branches of Faith. I do not see how I am being disrespectful.

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Raul-7 wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
I read all your sermon Rex. Suggest you leave out the physics, lest someone picks you up on basic errors.

Raul are you threatening me with the wrath of Allah? For what? For asking a question? for preferring Christianity to Islam?

What I said was that I am not sure Islam treats others with respect. And your response strengthens that belief.

How? I was pointing out that manners and behavior will hold the most weight on the Day of Judgement. Not to mention 'respect' is one of the branches of Faith. I do not see how I am being disrespectful.

for the simple reason that I made an observation to which you made a threat.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Raul-7 wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I read all your sermon Rex. Suggest you leave out the physics, lest someone picks you up on basic errors.

Raul are you threatening me with the wrath of Allah? For what? For asking a question? for preferring Christianity to Islam?

What I said was that I am not sure Islam treats others with respect. And your response strengthens that belief.

How? I was pointing out that manners and behavior will hold the most weight on the Day of Judgement. Not to mention 'respect' is one of the branches of Faith. I do not see how I am being disrespectful.
for the simple reason that I made an observation to which you made a threat.

What threat - the fact that God hates foul language is a threat? It's a statement, not a threat. If it went on and said "Allah hates foul language and will cast those who use it into the lowest levels of Hell" then that would constitute a threat.

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Raul-7 wrote:

the fact that God hates foul language is a threat? It's a statement, not a threat.

but I made no foul language, although I'm sorely tempted reading some of your religious rubbish.

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Raul, Exactly what inside information do you have to make such claims that "god hates foul language?"

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Raul-7 wrote:
the fact that God hates foul language is a threat? It's a statement, not a threat.
but I made no foul language, although I'm sorely tempted reading some of your religious rubbish.

Steve,

We are all at different stages of spiritual growth along the road to sainthood. It behooves us to recognize that the least of the family of faith are the of the greatest priority.

I will admit you did come into this discussion with both guns blazin', careful you don't shoot yourself in the foot. Smile

The fingers need to be pointed at religion and neither at truth nor the true God. Religion is imperfect and baroque yet truth is a crown of perfect priceless pearls of wisdom.

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sorry rex

understood the first six words

"we are all at different stages..." but then you lapsed into religiosese which I find impossible to follow.

Just out of interest, if you had to pick a friend to fight the other, who would it be me or Raul? (an intellectual fight of course, I'm not into bloodshed)

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Raul, I am not inferring that you are the least or the less informed, on the contrary in the time we have discussed things I have found that the Quran has led you closer to God than religion has led many Christians.

You have a clear love for God and after all that is what faith is all about in my own humble opinion.

Many Christians, Muslims, and Jews have had their faith in God ripped away because they could not reconcile their religion with the truth. They want to be socially appropriate so they throw out the baby with the bath water. You have kept your eye on the goal and for that I believe God is pleased.

It is very unfortunate that truth is forsaken for religion.

I will be writing more on the holy spirit. I feel like I have defined it but I have not made it completely clear. We must leave no room for confusion to set in and steal away the truth.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

sorry rex

understood the first six words

"we are all at different stages..." but then you lapsed into religiosese which I find impossible to follow.

Just out of interest, if you had to pick a friend to fight the other, who would it be me or Raul? (an intellectual fight of course, I'm not into bloodshed)

God has not given me any information on who is actually more advanced in wisdom so at this point it is a draw. Time will tell and when I know then I will tell you. I may venture to say that I perceive that Raul is highly studied in the Qu'ran which takes years of diligent study to achieve. Do you Steve feel you have that same amount of effort dedicated to Biblical thought?

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RexRed wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
sorry rex

understood the first six words

"we are all at different stages..." but then you lapsed into religiosese which I find impossible to follow.

Just out of interest, if you had to pick a friend to fight the other, who would it be me or Raul? (an intellectual fight of course, I'm not into bloodshed)

God has not given me any information on who is actually more advanced in wisdom so at this point it is a draw. Time will tell and when I know then I will tell you. I may venture to say that I perceive that Raul is highly studied in the Qu'ran which takes years of diligent study to achieve. Do you Steve feel you have that same amount of effort dedicated to Biblical thought?

Certainly not. For the same reason I have not put effort into studying Scientology. The God of the Old testament was a pretty unappealing sort anyway. That book is full of racist justification for Gods chosen people to slaughter others. Its full of the most horrendous violence. The New Testament message is much simpler and much better, you dont need to study it in depth. The Quran by contrast starts from the preposterous assumption that it is the "last perfect unchanging and unchangeable word of God". There is no room for debate. And I have no more repect for someone who has memorised it than I have for someone memorising the phone book. All religions started as an attempt by primitive peoples to explain the inexplicable. Appeasing gods kept them safe and fed in an environment over which they had no control. But now we know better. The Rain/Sun/Moon/Thunder gods were all artifical constructs. We can see that clearly now, and we can understand why they were invented. I dont pretend not to be awestruck when I contemplate the majesty of the universe or the behaviour of sub atomic particles (so far as I am able). That sense of awe and the knowledge that I am somehow part of it all, is the nearest I can get to a purely "religious" experience. But the fact remains there is not the slightest evidence at all for a creator god any more than a rain god. All of "creation" might be a wondrous thing, but the very word implies a creator for whom we cant find a role. Moreover if creation is complex, the creator must be more complex. (A watchmaker produces a watch, never the other way round). So it necessarily follows that the creator must have an even more complex creator, until you fall into infinite regression and absurdity. Life and the universe are wondrous things, we should learn and study that, there is more than enough to keep us busy, rather than go around inventing creator gods for things we dont properly understand. In this respect only scientific endeavour can lead us toward truth. Its hard work and it can be frustrating but its the only thing that we know does actually work. Everything else is just guesswork and speculation. And going back to the writings of bronze age peoples or to the time of Mohammed for answers is a betrayal of (if you will) our God given intelligence and brainpower.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

RexRed wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
sorry rex

understood the first six words

"we are all at different stages..." but then you lapsed into religiosese which I find impossible to follow.

Just out of interest, if you had to pick a friend to fight the other, who would it be me or Raul? (an intellectual fight of course, I'm not into bloodshed)

God has not given me any information on who is actually more advanced in wisdom so at this point it is a draw. Time will tell and when I know then I will tell you. I may venture to say that I perceive that Raul is highly studied in the Qu'ran which takes years of diligent study to achieve. Do you Steve feel you have that same amount of effort dedicated to Biblical thought?
Certainly not. For the same reason I have not put effort into studying Scientology. The God of the Old testament was a pretty unappealing sort anyway. That book is full of racist justification for Gods chosen people to slaughter others. Its full of the most horrendous violence. The New Testament message is much simpler and much better, you dont need to study it in depth. The Quran by contrast starts from the preposterous assumption that it is the "last perfect unchanging and unchangeable word of God". There is no room for debate. And I have no more repect for someone who has memorised it than I have for someone memorising the phone book. All religions started as an attempt by primitive peoples to explain the inexplicable. Appeasing gods kept them safe and fed in an environment over which they had no control. But now we know better. The Rain/Sun/Moon/Thunder gods were all artifical constructs. We can see that clearly now, and we can understand why they were invented. I dont pretend not to be awestruck when I contemplate the majesty of the universe or the behaviour of sub atomic particles (so far as I am able). That sense of awe and the knowledge that I am somehow part of it all, is the nearest I can get to a purely "religious" experience. But the fact remains there is not the slightest evidence at all for a creator god any more than a rain god. All of "creation" might be a wondrous thing, but the very word implies a creator for whom we cant find a role. Moreover if creation is complex, the creator must be more complex. (A watchmaker produces a watch, never the other way round). So it necessarily follows that the creator must have an even more complex creator, until you fall into infinite regression and absurdity. Life and the universe are wondrous things, we should learn and study that, there is more than enough to keep us busy, rather than go around inventing creator gods for things we dont properly understand. In this respect only scientific endeavour can lead us toward truth. Its hard work and it can be frustrating but its the only thing that we know does actually work. Everything else is just guesswork and speculation. And going back to the writings of bronze age peoples or to the time of Mohammed for answers is a betrayal of (if you will) our God given intelligence and brainpower.

Steve you remind me of one who reads a murder mystery book and puts the book down when the murder occurs without regard to who done it. Smile

Peace with God

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I read all your sermon Rex. Suggest you leave out the physics, lest someone picks you up on basic errors.

Could you please be specific on my "basic errors" in physics?

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The topic is the physics of the holy spirit. If the Bible is teaching that the holy spirit is both a particle and a wave (heaven and earth) then that idea was fostered two to six thousand years before modern physics proposed the nature of light.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Comment: wave/particle - heaven/earth?

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Comment: great noise - big bang

How modern is modern physics?

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RR you ask about basic errors in physics...(sorry but you will have to determine your quotes and my responses..)

The holy spirit is biblically defined as potential or kinetic power or energy.

Really, please quote chapter and verse. Power is the first derivative wrt time of work done. Kinetic power would thus be the rate of work done by a moving object (in slowing down). Potential power is meaningless.

The word power has been used to mean many things over the centuries.

But there is a definition see above.

So the quandary in understanding the holy spirit is wondering if it is a he, she, person, ghost, the wind, a cloud, God, Gabriel or a whole host of other considerations.

This does not follow. What the holy spirit is should surely not be confused with what the hs does, or the speed with which he she it does it.

We are a vessel and God supplies the waters that fill our souls to their capacity so that they over flow and spill out into the world. These waters flow out of the heavens through a portal opened by Christ Jesus. They flow through his body and when we connect to this fountain we are filled with the waters of life.

Dreaming here you go again, making it up as you go along.

Spirit is power and power is energy.

Well ethanol is powerful stuff but I wouldnt call it the holy spirit.

Energy is what makes a current move along a wire.

More commonly called voltage, though I dont wish to quibble

This wire stretches up along the phone lines and connects directly to God.

Now please tell me you are not being serious

energy can either be contained like in a battery or it can become kinetic and fulfill its purpose it was designed for.

You mean there are different energy levels with interchange between them.

it is the energy of the spirit (the faith of Jesus Christ) in manifestation that propels us at the speed of light so we shine to the world as lights of God's resplendent image and omnipotent power.

nonsense

This is the way I have formulated my own understanding (thought the Bible) of the spirit (in layman's terms) yet in a critical way. If anyone sees any contradiction I am certainly open for discussion.

I dont think so

It is like how light can be both a particle and a wave, because it is physical life mimicking spiritual life.

a photon has a body and a soul? I dont think so...on the othe hand who cares.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

RR you ask about basic errors in physics...(sorry but you will have to determine your quotes and my responses..)

The holy spirit is biblically defined as potential or kinetic power or energy.

Really, please quote chapter and verse. Power is the first derivative wrt time of work done. Kinetic power would thus be the rate of work done by a moving object (in slowing down). Potential power is meaningless.

The word power has been used to mean many things over the centuries.

But there is a definition see above.

So the quandary in understanding the holy spirit is wondering if it is a he, she, person, ghost, the wind, a cloud, God, Gabriel or a whole host of other considerations.

This does not follow. What the holy spirit is should surely not be confused with what the hs does, or the speed with which he she it does it.

We are a vessel and God supplies the waters that fill our souls to their capacity so that they over flow and spill out into the world. These waters flow out of the heavens through a portal opened by Christ Jesus. They flow through his body and when we connect to this fountain we are filled with the waters of life.

Dreaming here you go again, making it up as you go along.

Spirit is power and power is energy.

Well ethanol is powerful stuff but I wouldnt call it the holy spirit.

Energy is what makes a current move along a wire.

More commonly called voltage, though I dont wish to quibble

This wire stretches up along the phone lines and connects directly to God.

Now please tell me you are not being serious

energy can either be contained like in a battery or it can become kinetic and fulfill its purpose it was designed for.

You mean there are different energy levels with interchange between them.

it is the energy of the spirit (the faith of Jesus Christ) in manifestation that propels us at the speed of light so we shine to the world as lights of God's resplendent image and omnipotent power.

nonsense

This is the way I have formulated my own understanding (thought the Bible) of the spirit (in layman's terms) yet in a critical way. If anyone sees any contradiction I am certainly open for discussion.

I dont think so

It is like how light can be both a particle and a wave, because it is physical life mimicking spiritual life.

a photon has a body and a soul? I dont think so...on the othe hand who cares.

I care...

I care to know my creator.

You don't appear to care because you have been fooled by the visible realm such to the degree that is has filled your mind and you have left no room for the invisible realm.

That is the sole purpose of the visible world to distract you from knowing the invisible environments. It has apparently worked in your case. You demonstrate by your own words and intents first your lack of knowledge of the Bible, Qu'ran and other related books but secondly you have adhered to the generic understanding (religion) of God which is oriented in the visible realm also without looking in the Bible yourself..

I must admit that when I wrote my thesis here in this thread the other day I thought I had defined the spiritual universe quite completely but as the days went by I realized that I have much more to pin down in this subject.

So I have spent the last few day in a quandary of sorts. Yet you on the other hand have had the opposite conclusion that there is nothing to know and the whole subject is moot. So I am here to present an expansion on the ideas I submitted the other day and you are here to simply criticize without out really advancing the discussion. Is this the same way you would treat a scientific question? Ask yourself that question and you may again prove my point and also realize why you are seemingly "spiritually" mute.

Also you quickly surmise in your dead world that atoms are not alive... Atoms have movement atoms gravitate toward the sun from where they were born, they have energy (life) atoms have a body, atoms could have a soul considering that each atom has enough hard drive space to hold the entire internet on it, that hints toward intelligence far surpassing our own...

Energy can be both potential (stored) or it can be kinetic (in use). The same principles work for physical energy that do for spiritual energy. The answers to our energy crisis are in the Bible.

You have no proof that the holy spirit does not exist just as you have no proof of a black hole, or dark matter or dark energy, yet, you probably still believe in black holes and such. Why, because of scientific FAITH?

Faith in energy?

Because all that you have "seen" has led you to this understanding through careful study and diligent research. Well I have done my research on God and I have found the answers, have you done yours? Before you criticize those who have taken the time to get to know God, until you have put forth the effort yourself to study the word (not religion) and come to the same conclusions, it would behoove you to keep (out of at least simple decorum) an open mind

I am not afraid to be wrong because my goal is to learn and to become right.

Philippians 3:14
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

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One of these days I'm gonna get all worked up over this stuff... Smile

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1Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

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RR wrote: 1Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

What exactly is "the spirit which is god?" Has anybody seen it? It's my conclusion that those who believe in the "spirit of god" have been irreparably brain-washed never to see reality again.

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1Corinthians 4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

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What/Who is the Holy Spirit?

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