What/Who is the Holy Spirit?

RexRed wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
So what does it mean? If you talk in riddles you just go round in circles. What gives you the right to decide which bits of the holy book is good and should be forced on others, and which is to be glossed over?

Richard Dawkins wrote:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

....discuss

Free will gives me the right to reason and intelligence gives me the ability to decide what is the correct way of the word. God would certainly not insult my intelligence with blind faith.

so without free will you have no right to think reasonably? Intelligence gives you the ability to decide the correct "way" of the word? Do you mean "meaning". If so why not say it? As for god not demanding blind faith, what sort of faith does he require? Slightly myopic? 20/20 faith? You illustrate why its often hopeless debating with religionists because the application of reasoned thought forces you into talking in riddles. I simply do not understand your two sentences above and its not from lack of consideration.

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Quote:

When We substitute one Revelation for another - and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages) - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. Say: "The Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to those who submit to Allah." We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him (Muhammad)." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

More riddles. The holy spirit is (or was?) an arab called Gabriel? He spoke to Mohammed in Arabic (which was handy as he spoke arabic too) so what he said was true. As opposed to English which is false. Over to you Rex. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to decipher this.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

RexRed wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
So what does it mean? If you talk in riddles you just go round in circles. What gives you the right to decide which bits of the holy book is good and should be forced on others, and which is to be glossed over?

Richard Dawkins wrote:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

....discuss

Free will gives me the right to reason and intelligence gives me the ability to decide what is the correct way of the word. God would certainly not insult my intelligence with blind faith.
so without free will you have no right to think reasonably? Intelligence gives you the ability to decide the correct "way" of the word? Do you mean "meaning". If so why not say it? As for god not demanding blind faith, what sort of faith does he require? Slightly myopic? 20/20 faith? You illustrate why its often hopeless debating with religionists because the application of reasoned thought forces you into talking in riddles. I simply do not understand your two sentences above and its not from lack of consideration.

My it is interesting to see someone with a logical nature toward error.

First if free will was not free then reason would belong solely to the master. Simple deductive logic that appears to escape you. Also did God create intelligence so we could forgo it for faith. NO... Blind faith is a modern invention it is certainly not biblical.

Study the word for faith cometh by hearing of the word an not by our ignorance and shortsightedness.

2Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Comment:
If people could pull themselves out of the common interpretations, dogma and rhetoric to simply read what is written then Christian thought and faith would be a matter of study and not preceded by the word "blind".

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Raul-7 wrote:

Hi Rex,

The Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel (pbuh).

When We substitute one Revelation for another - and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages) - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. Say: "The Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to those who submit to Allah." We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him (Muhammad)." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear. (Qur'an 16:101-103)

As you know the Angel Gabriel (pbuh) is the one who used to reveal all the verses of the Qur'an to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

I most certainly agree that Gabriel worked as the holy spirit in the old testament. Gabriel followed Moses through the desert in a pillar of fire and smoke. That is about as holy spirit as you can get. But I am not certain I believe Gabriel is solely the holy spirit today. The holy spirit is the body of Christ given to believers of the word of truth. Christ embodies all of heaven. God gives this gift to us and it is holy spirit. How Gabriel plays a part in this spirit today is not clearly known, it would appear and there is reason to believe that the holy spirit that guided the old testament people is different than the one which guides Christians today. For Christ is now the head of this heavenly throne.

John the baptist who poured this spirit upon Jesus (in the form of a dove) said that one comes (Jesus) who is greater and his (Jesus') shoe latchet he (John) is not worthy to tie. John said he was not even worthy to tie Jesus' shoes and John lived by the old testament spirit (Gabriel/Michael/ Lucifer).

So the spirit of John was less than the spirit of Jesus. Also the dove did not jump out of John and hop into Jesus it descended from God in heaven into Jesus. That is the logic I get from that. That John only baptized Jesus but the spirit that came down from heaven was new. Every time spirit appears in a new being it is "created" new and never borrowed from the old. Spirit is creation itself. Even when we receive the holy spirit it is created new in the image of God though Christ Jesus.)

It was a spirit created to fill the vacuum left by the devil who had usurped the world with his unholy spirit. Jesus himself commands one third of the stars in heaven. These stars were once drawn by the tail of the great dragon lucifer/satan/the devil. But Lucifer was cast out of heavens to the earth and the heavens became dark and scarce in that place. Adam gave Lucifer this position back but only upon the earth was the devil imprisoned. Jesus fought and won this position on earth and in heaven back.

If you study astronomy the dragon drako used to be in the center of the celestial picture and now Orion (the Messiah) is occupying the center of the celestial picture.

This means that the one third of the stars are occupied by Gabriel and one third are occupied by Michael. A new third is now occupied by Christ Jesus [pbuh] and the saints, these three together Gabriel, Michael and Christ Jesus make up the holy spirit as it is today. (Jesus being the king of heaven and it's hosts and God being the king of the kingdom of God [PBUH] and all that there is.

There you have it. Gabriel and Michael are under Jesus not above Jesus. The messiah its not only the Lamb of the earth but also the king of heaven and God is the king of all. Jesus' heavenly kingdom is subject only to God.

Re 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Comment:
All heavenly creatures (creation) bow to God and the Lamb of heaven...

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RR wrote:

Does God have flesh and bones? NO... God is spirit and he created an image of what he is in man.

No, man created God to be in his own image. Why do you think God is so barbaric? He is the mirror image of the times he was created. Barbaric humans create barbaric Gods.

We see the same thing in mythology. Is Zeus a creation of man and therefore reflects mans behavior? Or did Zeus create man in his own image?

When we look at the Bible and see a God that enjoys bashing childrens heads against rocks and killing them are we looking at a God that created us in his image or a God created by man reflecting man's darker side?

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xingu wrote:

RR wrote:
Does God have flesh and bones? NO... God is spirit and he created an image of what he is in man.

No, man created God to be in his own image. Why do you think God is so barbaric? He is the mirror image of the times he was created. Barbaric humans create barbaric Gods.

We see the same thing in mythology. Is Zeus a creation of man and therefore reflects mans behavior? Or did Zeus create man in his own image?

When we look at the Bible and see a God that enjoys bashing childrens heads against rocks and killing them are we looking at a God that created us in his image or a God created by man reflecting man's darker side?

The OT God was barbaric because he was seen through a "spiritual" corruption on earth. You now (seem to) see God through this OT spiritual corruption and yet you seemingly ignore and are oblivious to the new testament God of love. Are you perhaps looking through a useless spirit in need of change?

This only proves that proper spirituality is the way to true understanding of what God 's actual image is. THIS IS WHY THERE IS A "NEW BIRTH".

When we have true spirituality we see ourselves in God's image and when we have improper spirituality we make God in our own image.

You seem to forget the OT people were not perfect (spiritually) or there would not have been a need for a new testament or even "laws", they would have just walked in perfect harmony. Yet you seem ignorant to the new testament God as if he does not matter in light of the OT God which fits the purpose more to discredit God.

Maybe if the OT God had been more like himself he would not have interested the multitudes? Because the very nature (spirit) of the OT people was out of balance and corruption was prevalent in spiritual high places. Fear ruled the day... Why?

This nature of the old world only proves there was the need for a new spiritual deposit across the board. This is the liberty and the walk of the spirit in Christ Jesus [pbuh].

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RexRed wrote:

The OT God was barbaric because he was seen through a "spiritual" corruption on earth. You now (seem to) see God through this OT spiritual corruption and yet you seemingly ignore and are oblivious to the new testament God of love.

OT God Bad. NT God Good. OTGB NTGG OTGB NTGG. Now it boils down to chanting. In any case I thought there was ony one[/b] God?

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Kind of confusing isn't it? There's the father, the son, and the holy ghost. On top of those three, there is the holy spirit. We then have the good god and the mean-vengeful god. Man is made in god's image, but he/she is not a sexual spirit, because if he/she created the world and universe from nothing, there wasn't another hermaphrodite to have sex with. The only conclusion is that he/she is a hermaphrodite who discriminates against homosexuals.

We now learn that this jesus guy had sex and bore a child. Is god a sexual animal?

It gets more interesting every day.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Kind of confusing isn't it? There's the father, the son, and the holy ghost. On top of those three, there is the holy spirit. We then have the good god and the mean-vengeful god. Man is made in god's image, but he/she is not a sexual spirit, because if he/she created the world and universe from nothing, there wasn't another hermaphrodite to have sex with. The only conclusion is that he/she is a hermaphrodite who discriminates against homosexuals.

We now learn that this jesus guy had sex and bore a child. Is god a sexual animal?

It gets more interesting every day.

yes, and I want to know what God does each day. Does he check on posts on a2k? Does he throw the queers into the fires of everlasting damnation? Does he get bored and send an earthquake or a volcano? Or perhaps we are to pre occupied with us on Earth and we forget he spends nearly all his time meddling on other much more interesting planets, with much more interesting animals. Or does he spend most days at teh drawing board designing new universes where quarks are muons and time goes sideways?

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Steve, God already did his middling during bible times. The problem with all them stories in the bible about jesus is god already knew what would happen before they happened. He knew before hand that he would cause a world flood, because he knew man would commit sin. Too bad those dumb animals didn't know any difffernt; they got drowned too by this "loving" god. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Quote:
When We substitute one Revelation for another - and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages) - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. Say: "The Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to those who submit to Allah." We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him (Muhammad)." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

More riddles. The holy spirit is (or was?) an arab called Gabriel? He spoke to Mohammed in Arabic (which was handy as he spoke arabic too) so what he said was true. As opposed to English which is false. Over to you Rex. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to decipher this.

No, the idolators (non-believers) referred to a foreign (i.e., non-Arab) man who lived among them as the servant of some of the clans of Quraysh and who used to sell goods by As-Safa. Maybe the Messenger of Allah used to sit with him sometimes and talk to him a little, but he was a foreigner who did not know much Arabic, only enough simple phrases to answer questions when he had to. Then Allah sent down this verse through Gabriel to falsify their claims.

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Look Raul, I know I'm being terribly thick here, but who was making the false claims? The idolators or the man who didnt speak much arabic? And what was being said that was false? Was the man making false claims for his goods? Was he selling used camels and clocking the sandometers?

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I'm wondering if RexRed is one of those Dispensationalist.

Quote:

Dispensationalists believe that God has two separate but parallel means of working - one through the Church, the other through Israel (the former being a parenthesis to the latter). Thus there is, and always will remain, a distinction, 'between Israel, the Gentiles and the Church.' Darby was not the first to insist on a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

Quote:
Marcion stressed the radical nature of Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism. In his theology there existed a total discontinuity between the OT and the NT, between Israel and the church, and even between the god of the OT and the Father of Jesus.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info:80/article4531.htm

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Kind of confusing isn't it? There's the father, the son, and the holy ghost. On top of those three, there is the holy spirit. We then have the good god and the mean-vengeful god. Man is made in god's image, but he/she is not a sexual spirit, because if he/she created the world and universe from nothing, there wasn't another hermaphrodite to have sex with. The only conclusion is that he/she is a hermaphrodite who discriminates against homosexuals.

We now learn that this jesus guy had sex and bore a child. Is god a sexual animal?

It gets more interesting every day.

God is a verb and creation is a noun, every noun is subjugated by verb.

RexRed

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xingu wrote:

I'm wondering if RexRed is one of those Dispensationalist.

Quote:
Dispensationalists believe that God has two separate but parallel means of working - one through the Church, the other through Israel (the former being a parenthesis to the latter). Thus there is, and always will remain, a distinction, 'between Israel, the Gentiles and the Church.' Darby was not the first to insist on a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

Quote:
Marcion stressed the radical nature of Christianity vis-a-vis Judaism. In his theology there existed a total discontinuity between the OT and the NT, between Israel and the church, and even between the god of the OT and the Father of Jesus.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info:80/article4531.htm

Very good, I am a dispansationalists (sort of). Getting warm...

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RR, You're missing the point; jesus is the son of god. Did jesus have a penis or was he a hermaphrodite? Is jesus and man the image of god?
Where does this go? Nowhere! Maybe god got used to masterbation.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

RR, You're missing the point; jesus is the son of god. Did jesus have a penis or was he a hermaphrodite? Is jesus and man the image of god?
Where does this go? Nowhere! Maybe god got used to masterbation.

In the beginning the verb created the noun (if you want to breed sex into that then I guess that is your own purgative).

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I didn't create anything; it was god who created adam and eve - and most of the sexual animals on this planet. Word games are nice, but that's not the idea here, because these things were created "before" language.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I didn't create anything; it was god who created adam and eve - and most of the sexual animals on this planet. Word games are nice, but that's not the idea here, because these things were created "before" language.

What created them?

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God created, we do not create, we reproduce.

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What/Who is the Holy Spirit?

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