Or a sticker...
(I'm very curious as to how they would possibly think that a sticker would stay on in the water in the first place, or if it's a "Why look, there's an air grate, I'll just go stand over it in my chiffon circle skirt, whoopsie!" kind of thing.)
Hmmm - the air grate was in a SCRIPT - written by a male - how often do women go and stand over air grates for crissake?
I grant you the stickers.
We men are so smart. I mean, who woulda thought of an air grate??
Works on so many levels. Sheer genius I say!
Jeez, I leave town for a few days and now have so much to catch up on!
The photo in the original post of this thread appears to be a poster
made in 1951, titled "American Girl in Italy".
I've also seen the image used in magazine advertisements.
The image seems entirely staged, but still good for discussion.
1) FAKE GENDER ROLES
The photo can be used to sell almost any product to women. When used
in that way, the image presents ogling as a very positive thing! When
selling a dress or a perfume, getting every man's attention on the street
is highly desireable. Whatever the product is, it's a source of great power
to the woman, giving her the ability to attract and influence so many men.
All too often, our society reinforces the idea that women should live and
operate through men, by attracting and manipulating them. Who is being
used and abused by these gender roles? Both men and women equally.
2) WHO'S IN CHARGE?
Judging ogling to be positive or negative (like anything in life) depends
on what the person is trying to do, and who is in control. Most people
I know do manipulate others. Most men and women are also afraid to
be mugged. Any powerful situation is positive or negative, depending
on how one uses it.
The key is to learn how to control it, and be able to turn it on or off.
Who would I like to have in charge of each situation? Me! That's why
I'm careful about my appearance and manner when I have a job to do.
But that's my choice, because I want as much control as I can at those
times.
3) TAKE CARE
When I was in Italy I was ogled to the same degree as the woman
in the poster. As an American man riding an exotic Japanese bicycle,
when I stopped for water I often had 10-30 people stare, walk up to me,
and surround my bike. Granted they weren't staring at my gonads, but
it was still an odd experience, frightening because I wasn't in control
of the outcome. Anything could happen! I can't blame/fault/accuse
anyone though, because their reaction was natural and very human.
Other people are free to interpret it as rudeness, threat or flattery,
however they wish. My only reaction was to be alert and careful, and
try to learn about them.
4) OGLING IS NATURAL
White people travelling in faraway places often have to put up with
crowds staring, grabbing, touching, petting, just because they are white.
Expect it. Be prepared for it. Complain if you like, but there's not
much you can do about it.
Anything that's extraordinarily unusual *will* get attention. In real
life, extraordinarily attractive people are rare. So it's not fair.
It's scary and uncomfortable. It's easy to read a lot of things into it
and get really tweaked about it, but ogling is bound to happen. It's
understandable and very human, and I have no choice but to face it
and try to learn how to safely get by.
I can't accuse the world of being a jungle. That's just what it is.
I really hate when I'm ogled by hungry lions. It's a source of great discomfort.
Code, I hadn't known that photo has been used as an ad. I'd never seen it before this topic. Quite interesting.
Sure NIMH - but women don't just get ogled in "far-away places" which they can choose to leave. Unless we leave the planet.
And the relativity thing is seductive, but limited. I defy any psychologically healthy human being to find the attitude of the man who is blocking the woman's way in that photo (staged as it is, I accept - but that behaviour does occur - whilst almost never in the presence of similar, but less threatening, behaviour from every man in sight, I agree!) other than disgusting.
Hungry lions do not ogle - they look very focussed, and concentrated, but quite benign! You are, after all, naught but a possible long pig/mild threat to them!
Dammit. Will I never learn to shut up!
So when a dudette once stood in a doorway blocking my passage while trying to flirt with me she was being disgusting?
Silly me.
Yes, she was - if she blocked your path - and looked as aggressive as that.
Well I showed her! I took two mugs that i was carrying (we were doing dishes) and fastened them onto her chest in a way that surprised her.
Ok, so we were colorful friends and her act was non-threatening. I was just raising the issue of teasing as it relates to flirting and how with such activities individuals have different lines.
Indeed, I know you were - but - do you think the attitude MEANT to be portrayed there was teasing between two folk who knew each other? Or do you think it would be seen as somewhat threatening by most? How would a man feel in the same situation, approached similarly by another man? Remember, your scenario, even if she were a stranger (and, as I have said before, I have found the reaction of male friends treated that way by a woman to be, very frequently, disgust) you need to add in the reality that, in your example, the dudette is a lot stronger than you are. (I believe we would acknowledge that to be the case in the photo - I don't think simply reversing stuff gives quite the actual feel of most situations.)
I don't seek to equate, only to compare. If a stranger bloked my way in some circumstances I'd be very angry. Had to kill three bums for that mistake.
But if the tap dancing fools hadn't romanticized the notion of singing and dancing to a girl and getting in her way as she endearingly tries to ignore the onslaught of charm charmless men would make fewer attempts at getting one's attention this way.
< twirls around a lamp post >
LOL!!!!! That man is soooooooo not dancing! But - a fella, twirling round a lamp-post? Hmmmmmmmm - that would not, I think , be seen as a threat!
(Some busker fella did that to me once - waaaay cute, but a bit 'barrassing!)
Try teaching all the men on earth how to make it cute, as opposed to threatening.
I'm busy at work making mankind understand my potence.
hmmmm - methinks thou art partaking of potables and such as well.
YOU teach them! You claim to be a god! Damn it!
I think it a task beyond what even a god can do. There's always the idiot who thinks it's charming to proclaim himself god just as there are other people willing to interpret it as blasphemous.
Honestly, when I looked at the poster, the woman seemed to be walking
past the corner without being blocked by the man. Of course, the real
topic here is ogling in general, not just this speciific photo.
My experience of dealing with people on a wide-open social street
corner, as in the photo, is that if I walk directly towards someone
and say "pardon me" they usually get out of my path, ogling or not.
If they continue to block my way, then I consider them rude.
If they're trying to sell me something or start a fight, refusing to
yield, then I really consider them offensive but mumble something like
"not interested" and try to slip by them. Every situation is different
though, and my standards are not the same as everyones.
Just the fact that people watch me at all makes me nervous and puts me
on my guard. It *is* offensive when I'm not asking for it. I *do* resent it.
I wish people wouldn't do that, but some people always do and always will.
I think everyone's experiences should be considered, not just womens or
mens, black or white. Everyone faces threatening situations from time to
time, and deserves the respect of being considered and understood.
