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Finally: Voting Machines That Leave a Paper Trail

 
 
Reply Thu 1 Feb, 2007 09:06 pm
Reats of Article
By ABBY GOODNOUGH and CHRISTOPHER DREW
Published: February 2, 2007
DELRAY BEACH, Fla., Feb. 1 ?- Gov. Charlie Crist announced plans on Thursday to abandon the touch-screen voting machines that many of Florida's counties installed after the disputed 2000 presidential election. The state will instead adopt a system of casting paper ballots counted by scanning machines in time for the 2008 presidential election.

Voting experts said Florida's move, coupled with new federal voting legislation expected to pass this year, could be the death knell for the paperless electronic touch-screen machines. If as expected the Florida Legislature approves the $32.5 million cost of the change, it would be the nation's biggest repudiation yet of touch-screen voting, which was widely embraced after the 2000 recount as a state-of-the-art means of restoring confidence that every vote would count.

Several counties around the country, including Cuyahoga in Ohio and Sarasota in Florida, are moving toward exchanging touch-screen machines for ones that provide a paper trail. But Florida could become the first state that invested heavily in the recent rush to touch screens to reject them so sweepingly.

"Florida is like a synonym for election problems; it's the Bermuda Triangle of elections," said Warren Stewart, policy director of VoteTrust USA, a nonprofit group that says optical scanners are more reliable than touch screens. "For Florida to be clearly contemplating moving away from touch screens to the greatest extent possible is truly significant."

Other states that rushed to buy the touch-screen machines are also abandoning them. Earlier this week, the Virginia Senate passed a bill that would phase out the machines as they wore out, and replace them with optical scanners. The Maryland legislature also seems determined to order a switch from the paperless touch screens, though it is not clear yet if it will require the use of optical scanners or just allow paper printers to be added to the touch screens.

On Monday, Representative Rush D. Holt, Democrat of New Jersey, plans to introduce a bill in Congress that would require all voting machines nationwide to produce paper records through which voters can verify that their ballots were recorded correctly. A majority of House members have endorsed the proposal, and the changes have strong support among Senate Democrats. Mr. Holt's bill would also substantially toughen the requirements for the touch-screen machines that have printers, and experts say this could give even more impetus to the shift toward the optical scanning systems.

Mr. Crist, a Republican, at times drew whoops and applause when he announced his plan at the South County Civic Center in Palm Beach County, the epicenter of the 2000 election standoff and home of the infamous "butterfly ballot" that confused many voters. The touch screens had replaced the punch-card systems that caused widespread problems that year.

"You should, when you go vote, be able to have a record of it," Mr. Crist told a few hundred mostly older citizens at the civic center, in Delray Beach, where many residents said they accidentally voted for Patrick J. Buchanan in 2000 instead of Al Gore because of the confusing ballot design. "That's all we're proposing today. It's not very complicated; it is in fact common sense. Most importantly, it is the right thing to do."

Mr. Crist's renunciation of touch-screen voting one month after he replaced Jeb Bush as governor of the nation's fourth-most-populous state, suggested that the fight for paper voting records, long a pet project of Democrats, might become more bipartisan. Mr. Crist made the announcement with Representative Robert Wexler, a Democrat from Delray Beach who has ardently led the movement for a paper trail and has attacked Republicans along the way.

"I support this plan 100 percent," Mr. Wexler said before introducing Mr. Crist. "This governor means what he says, and he's coming to Tallahassee and he's spreading the message throughout Florida that this isn't about Republican or Democrat, it's not about this ideology or that; it's about unifying people and doing what's right for the people of Florida."

The 15 Florida counties that have adopted touch-screen voting in recent years, including Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach and Hillsborough, would move to optical-scan voting under the proposal before the presidential election of 2008. The plan would give them the option, however, of using touch-screen machines during the state's two-week early voting period that precedes Election Day, if the machines are modified to provide a paper trail. Those counties represent 54 percent of the state's registered voters. Broward County alone has bought about 6,000 touch-screen machines in recent years, and Palm Beach County has about 4,500.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,480 • Replies: 33
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 04:55 am
I wonder how the records are going to be stored and archived -- eventually that will be an issue, too. Hmm.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 05:40 am
I would expect them to be held the same way the old paper ballots were held. If they could manage it then, why not now?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 07:44 am
edgarblythe wrote:
I would expect them to be held the same way the old paper ballots were held. If they could manage it then, why not now?


Since we are on the issue of voting machines what happened to all the talk about voting fraud? We have heard nothing but accusations about voting fraud and how the Reps have been cheating for the last 3 elections. Now the Dems win and all the talk about fraud and cheating has all but disappeared. Did all the issues with voting fraud get fixed? No I don't think it did, I just think the Rep's were winning fair and square and the Dems didn't like it so they complained. Now they won and all is right with the world. It only took shaking the voting faith of the American public for cheap political gain.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 07:55 am
The words "barn doors"...and "already escaped" come to mind.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:01 am
Baldimo wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
I would expect them to be held the same way the old paper ballots were held. If they could manage it then, why not now?


Since we are on the issue of voting machines what happened to all the talk about voting fraud? We have heard nothing but accusations about voting fraud and how the Reps have been cheating for the last 3 elections. Now the Dems win and all the talk about fraud and cheating has all but disappeared. Did all the issues with voting fraud get fixed? No I don't think it did, I just think the Rep's were winning fair and square and the Dems didn't like it so they complained. Now they won and all is right with the world. It only took shaking the voting faith of the American public for cheap political gain.


Gosh Baldimo is that what you think? Gee, who could have predicted that/
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:03 am
Baldimo: Florida's move on this issue is precisely because the aroma of fraud was so prevalent in the recent elections. Reasonable people on both sides asked the question "How can you verify an election's result?" Paper trails are part of the answer.


The greatest democracy in the world ought to be able to run a fair election.

Joe(naif)Nation
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:11 am
Joe Nation wrote:
Baldimo: Florida's move on this issue is precisely because the aroma of fraud was so prevalent in the recent elections. Reasonable people on both sides asked the question "How can you verify an election's result?" Paper trails are part of the answer.


The greatest democracy in the world ought to be able to run a fair election.

Joe(naif)Nation


That doesn't explain the lack of complaints about voting fraud in this last election.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:12 am
well... you're whining and complaining right now.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:33 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well... you're whining and complaining right now.


No. I'm asking questions. The liberals in this country for the last 6 years have done nothing but protray the voting system in this country as crap. The confidence of the voting public has been shaken for no other reason then to score political points. Now that they won all talk has halted.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:38 am
Baldimo wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well... you're whining and complaining right now.


No. I'm asking questions. The liberals in this country for the last 6 years have done nothing but protray the voting system in this country as crap. The confidence of the voting public has been shaken for no other reason then to score political points. Now that they won all talk has halted.


Jesus get over it. You lost. there is nothing to be gained from all this grousing and complaining. You are emboldening the terrorists. Now more than ever we need to present a united front to the world. for God's sake Baldimo, get on America train.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 08:48 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well... you're whining and complaining right now.


No. I'm asking questions. The liberals in this country for the last 6 years have done nothing but protray the voting system in this country as crap. The confidence of the voting public has been shaken for no other reason then to score political points. Now that they won all talk has halted.


Jesus get over it. You lost. there is nothing to be gained from all this grousing and complaining. You are emboldening the terrorists. Now more than ever we need to present a united front to the world. for God's sake Baldimo, get on America train.


Sometimes I love you, Bear!

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:33 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well... you're whining and complaining right now.


No. I'm asking questions. The liberals in this country for the last 6 years have done nothing but protray the voting system in this country as crap. The confidence of the voting public has been shaken for no other reason then to score political points. Now that they won all talk has halted.


Jesus get over it. You lost. there is nothing to be gained from all this grousing and complaining. You are emboldening the terrorists. Now more than ever we need to present a united front to the world. for God's sake Baldimo, get on America train.


You should have used that reasoning about 6 years ago. United front my ass. It is the libs who have driven a wedge between people in the US over the last 6 years. Instead of accepting defeat with some sort of grace the Dem party and their supporters have claimed fraud and pushed doubt into the minds of voters. Now that you have won an election it is time to put all of that behind us and carry on? Wrong answer buddy and you know it. If you wanted a united front then you should have shut your mouth 6 years ago.

Your making humor out of the situation and poking fun doesn't make it better.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:35 am
tsk tsk Larry.... a little out of sorts aren't you? A real American would be too strong to allow a mealy mouthed liberal to get his goat.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:38 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
tsk tsk Larry.... a little out of sorts aren't you? A real American would be too strong to allow a mealy mouthed liberal to get his goat.


Sometimes your humor isn't so humorous. You sure you make a living doing stand up comedy?

By the way if you must know I'm not a cable guy, I work for a cable company doing internet and phone services repair.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:44 am
Baldimo wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
tsk tsk Larry.... a little out of sorts aren't you? A real American would be too strong to allow a mealy mouthed liberal to get his goat.


Sometimes your humor isn't so humorous. You sure you make a living doing stand up comedy?

actually, I'm a musician and a dj however I deal with people all the time who are so touchy thay can't take a joke at their expense. You can usually spot them in the club. they're the ones sitting alone. :wink:

By the way if you must know I'm not a cable guy, I work for a cable company doing internet and phone services repair.
[/b][/color]

thank you for pointing out that tremendous difference.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:47 am
And where do you get the idea that there aren't any new charges of election fraud? In Ohio, in Arizona, in Florida there are still causes pending from the 2006 elections as to whether voting regulations were properly adhered to and CONGRESS just passed several new laws regarding the use of dirty tricks ie auto-calling, or making false statements regarding the time and place of elections.

This is not a dead subject of conversation in any district that I am aware of.

Oh. And two election officials were just convicted in Ohio. What do you know? AP Cleveland


Joe(reality bites)Nation
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:50 am
Hey Joe were these republicans or democrats?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:54 am
I don't care. That's the point of investigating bad officials without regard to their party. These people appear just to be lazy bean counter types who didn't want to spend any of their (haha) budget on re-counting votes.

Joe(it's the people's money. It's the people's votes)Nation
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 09:58 am
I don't either I think all crooks should be brought before the man, but I take a twisted pleasure in seeing the high and mighty toppled from the moral high ground. Twisted Evil

Bi-Polar (hard to believe but occasionally childish) Bear
0 Replies
 
 

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