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Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 07:00 pm
mesquite wrote:
Neo,
Before you get carried away with explaining new stuff let's finish up some of the earlier points. Way back in this post you made some assertions.
neologist wrote:
The slavery tolerated by God did not permit sexual exploitation or physical mistreatment.
.
I refuted both of those assertions in this post where I provided quotes from the bible and included links to the actual verses so that the full context was available. There is no ambiguity in the verses I quoted.


And this was an excellent post by Mesquite and deserves a full reply.


Joe(I'll wait for the scriptural explanation about the beatings allowed)Nation
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 08:23 pm
Joe(don't be too tough on neo)Nation, Of all the religionists on a2k, neo is one of my favorite, because his tone is always mellow without any aggression or bad words (unlike many of mine). All my siblings are christians and republicans, and I love them all. I have a special affection for neo, because I see the goodness in him.

There's something about religion that seems to grab the individual's heart and mind. They can rationalize so many of the contradictions found in the bible, anybody trying to find elemental reasoning will be frustrated. It's a malady that can't be explained.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 09:55 pm
mesquite wrote:
Neo,
Before you get carried away with explaining new stuff let's finish up some of the earlier points. Way back in this post you made some assertions.
neologist wrote:
The slavery tolerated by God did not permit sexual exploitation or physical mistreatment.
.
I refuted both of those assertions in this post where I provided quotes from the bible and included links to the actual verses so that the full context was available. There is no ambiguity in the verses I quoted.
No ambiguity claimed. Compare what you refer to as physical and sexual mistreatment to the treatment of slaves under religions contemporary to ancient Judaism.

The ambiguity comes from your painting all with the same brush.

And don't think I am telling you I would have preferred to live as a captive slave to a Hebrew master. I would not. But I think I would have preferred that to living as a slave of an Assyrian master.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 10:05 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
. . . So now regale us with the "scriptural explanation" of how having slaves was merely an allegory for the sin of man. Do you not see how this myth you are spinning is no different than any other of the thousands of other creation/destruction/redemption myths? There is nothing missing.
. . .
Don't get your shorts in a bunch, Joe. I didn't use the term allegory, you did. But you are right in that I hold that slavery is a good description of the condition of man.

What do you think the world would seem like to an ordinary bozo living in the 2nd millennium B.C.E.? I would probably want to get my family as far away from any government as I could possibly get. Failing that, I don't think the conditions imposed on the Israelites would be to difficult to accept.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 10:07 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Joe(don't be too tough on neo)Nation, Of all the religionists on a2k, neo is one of my favorite, because his tone is always mellow without any aggression or bad words (unlike many of mine). All my siblings are christians and republicans, and I love them all. I have a special affection for neo, because I see the goodness in him.

There's something about religion that seems to grab the individual's heart and mind. They can rationalize so many of the contradictions found in the bible, anybody trying to find elemental reasoning will be frustrated. It's a malady that can't be explained.
Thanks for the boost, CI. At least with you I can let down the missile defense system. But I am perfectly able and willing to punch both ways, as the many religionists on this board may have noticed.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 11:02 pm
neo, I believe that works both ways. Keep on truck'n.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2007 11:36 pm
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Neo,
Before you get carried away with explaining new stuff let's finish up some of the earlier points. Way back in this post you made some assertions.
neologist wrote:
The slavery tolerated by God did not permit sexual exploitation or physical mistreatment.
.
I refuted both of those assertions in this post where I provided quotes from the bible and included links to the actual verses so that the full context was available. There is no ambiguity in the verses I quoted.
No ambiguity claimed.

That is correct, you did not claim ambiguity. You claimed that The slavery tolerated by God did not permit sexual exploitation or physical mistreatment. which was wholly and completely false.
neologist wrote:
Compare what you refer to as physical and sexual mistreatment to the treatment of slaves under religions contemporary to ancient Judaism.

The ambiguity comes from your painting all with the same brush.

Strawman. I wasn't using a brush. I merely quoted scripture sufficient to discredit your erroneous statement.

neologist wrote:
And don't think I am telling you I would have preferred to live as a captive slave to a Hebrew master. I would not. But I think I would have preferred that to living as a slave of an Assyrian master.

We were not discussing comparative mistreatment to see which was the worst. You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 01:39 am
mesquite wrote:
. . . We were not discussing comparative mistreatment to see which was the worst. You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.
You might not have been discussing comparisons. I was.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 04:24 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Joe(don't be too tough on neo)Nation, Of all the religionists on a2k, neo is one of my favorite, because his tone is always mellow without any aggression or bad words (unlike many of mine). All my siblings are christians and republicans, and I love them all. I have a special affection for neo, because I see the goodness in him.

There's something about religion that seems to grab the individual's heart and mind. They can rationalize so many of the contradictions found in the bible, anybody trying to find elemental reasoning will be frustrated. It's a malady that can't be explained.


CI: Have I been tough on Neo? Hmmm. If you think this is me being tough on someone you should listen in when I talk about something important, like whether the Yankee relief battery has been completely discharged. No aggression here, at least I'm not aware of doing, (correct me if I wrong) I AM asking direct questions, we all are, and getting some very slippery answers.

Quote:
You might not have been discussing comparisons. I was.

Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
. .
Quote:
. So now regale us with the "scriptural explanation" of how having slaves was merely an allegory for the sin of man. Do you not see how this myth you are spinning is no different than any other of the thousands of other creation/destruction/redemption myths? There is nothing missing.
. . .
Don't get your shorts in a bunch, Joe. I didn't use the term allegory, you did. But you are right in that I hold that slavery is a good description of the condition of man.

I have no doubt that there is goodness in Neo and many others.
I have no doubt that believers in the many myths can, and are, good people.

Joe(Occasionally, I would like them to face what they believe and tell it true.)Nation
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 08:36 am
Joe Nation wrote:
. . . If you think this is me being tough on someone you should listen in when I talk about something important, like whether the Yankee relief battery has been completely discharged. . .
Yankee, eh?

Go Sox!!!

Smile
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 08:40 am
Joe Nation wrote:
. . . Joe(Occasionally, I would like them to face what they believe and tell it true.)Nation
Exactly. And let one's belief not be clouded by desire for reward or license.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 11:57 am
mesquite wrote:
You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.


Wait a minute . . . hold the phone . . . you mean if i enslave Neo, i can beat him to the point that he'll die in three or four days, and i'm cool?
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 12:57 pm
Setanta wrote:
mesquite wrote:
You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.


Wait a minute . . . hold the phone . . . you mean if i enslave Neo, i can beat him to the point that he'll die in three or four days, and i'm cool?

If you believe the Bible, that is.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 01:39 pm
Setanta wrote:
mesquite wrote:
You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.


Wait a minute . . . hold the phone . . . you mean if i enslave Neo, i can beat him to the point that he'll die in three or four days, and i'm cool?
You would be a fool to waste such a valuable asset. Besides, I might instinctively flex my forearm and create an earthquake, destroying your house.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2007 11:59 pm
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . . We were not discussing comparative mistreatment to see which was the worst. You made the claim that Biblegod did not allow physical mistreatment which he clearly did so long as the mistreatment did not cause death within a day or two.
You might not have been discussing comparisons. I was.


OK, let's see where a comparison takes us. The Bible pulls no punches (pi) and is very specific as to the allowable physical mistreatment of slaves.

Quote:
Exodus 21:20 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.

Exd 21:21 "But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.


I have no idea what the laws of neighboring nations were regarding the limits of physical abuse of slaves, but I am always ready to learn something new.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 11:27 am
Neo?
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 12:04 pm
please leave you name, number, and the time you called and a bible thumper will get back to you as soon as possible.... *beep*
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 12:54 pm
mesquite wrote:
Neo?
Sorry. I have been researching the conditions imposed on slaves in non Hebrew nations in B.C.E. times and have not yet found enough to qualify for a post. Apparently there were as many different laws as there were classifications of slavery.

I'm not ignoring you and I would not have resurrected Frank's post if I was not sure of my position. Nevertheless, and as I have often said, it is often a long leap from self assurance to rhetorical proof.

I see none of my fellow 'thumpers' have even dared to tread on this path. You gotta credit me with the iron jaw here.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 12:57 pm
neologist wrote:
I'm not ignoring you and I would not have resurrected Frank's post if I was not sure of my position.


Translation: I will attempt to flog this dead horse back to life, even if it kills him . . . er . . . well, you know what i mean . . .
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2007 01:02 pm
Setanta wrote:
neologist wrote:
I'm not ignoring you and I would not have resurrected Frank's post if I was not sure of my position.


Translation: I will attempt to flog this dead horse back to life, even if it kills him . . . er . . . well, you know what i mean . . .
Actually, I was hoping to resurrect Frank.

The board was so much more lively then.
0 Replies
 
 

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