Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

Is there any chance that this thread will get back on topic rather than pursue the myopic musing (and now threats) of a person who apparently cannot read the Internal Revenue Code?

PS: There is hardly a soul alive who does not know that the IRS rewards informers. Not really news.

Joe(musing is amusing, but not particularly interesting)Nation

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Sorry, Joe(irritated)Nation, but I just hate frauds, and they need to be exposed!

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Whether we are slaves to a government or to a federally sponsored authority may be a matter of discussion, but it doesn't seem to advance this thread.

But it may be enlightening to consider what level of obedience constitutes slavery. Or is obedience to any authority slavery?

Similarly, what level of enforcement to authority makes one a slave? Is it the threat of physical punishment? Confinement?

I mean, we all have a vision in our minds of a wretched individual cowering under the whip of a harsh master, but in some historical societies, perhaps even now, slaves could rise to positions of relative wealth and power.

Are you still a slave if you may come and go as you please, own property, even own slaves, yet are subject to the will of a master?

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neo: Are you still a slave if you may come and go as you please, own property, even own slaves, yet are subject to the will of a master?

Can you identify for us where this is happening?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

neo: Are you still a slave if you may come and go as you please, own property, even own slaves, yet are subject to the will of a master?

Can you identify for us where this is happening?

It was literally true in bible times, but you are asking about today, right?

That is the point I was musing over when I asked:

Quote:

But it may be enlightening to consider what level of obedience constitutes slavery. Or is obedience to any authority slavery?

Similarly, what level of enforcement to authority makes one a slave? Is it the threat of physical punishment? Confinement?

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neo: It was literally true in bible times, but you are asking about today, right?

Right!

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cicerone imposter wrote:

neo: It was literally true in bible times, but you are asking about today, right?

Right!

That is the point I was musing over when I asked:

Quote:

But it may be enlightening to consider what level of obedience constitutes slavery. Or is obedience to any authority slavery?

Similarly, what level of enforcement to authority makes one a slave? Is it the threat of physical punishment? Confinement?

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neo, Slavery is when an individual doesn't have a choice to stay or leave.

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Virtually all of us have choices if we are willing to accept the consequences.

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A slave can be shot - in olden times if caught escaping.

Slavery is outlawed in many countries today, but we still have slavery in many poor ones. Sex slavery is still alive and well in developed countries too.

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neologist wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
neo: Are you still a slave if you may come and go as you please, own property, even own slaves, yet are subject to the will of a master?

Can you identify for us where this is happening?
It was literally true in bible times, but you are asking about today, right?

That is the point I was musing over when I asked:
Quote:
But it may be enlightening to consider what level of obedience constitutes slavery. Or is obedience to any authority slavery?
Similarly, what level of enforcement to authority makes one a slave? Is it the threat of physical punishment? Confinement?

Good question Neo.

I propose that salvery exists in two forms: Forced and Indentured Servitude. The status of being a slave is when you no longer have custody of ANY of your own rights. The difference between the two notions of slavery I proposed is that with indentured servitude, one might volunteer him or herself to another for certain amenities. However, most indentured servants were not indefinate in their term.

I think Bart is trying to make a play to where we are all indentured servants to the government. While I can see some parallels, the relationships ultimately in my mind seem to different to be synonomous.

T
K
O

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When we have a choice, I don't see that as "slavery."

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The definition of slavery as it pertains to this thread was given in the opening post. It is not about Hebrew indentured servants nor societal leeches that do not want to pay their fair share.

Quote:

This particular quote is from a Catholic Bible -- but I have confirmed the passage in Protestant and Jewish Bibles -- and it is essentially the same. The major elements are in each:

1) You may own slaves both male and female.

2) You may purchase the slaves.

3) You may own them and treat them as chattels.

4) You may leave them to your heirs as hereditary property.

5) You may keep them slaves forever.

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I'm afraid I have left a wrong impression on you folks. I am all for paying taxes towards taking care of our roadways, putting up recreational areas, conserving natural habitats, and housing the homeless and such.

I just get a wee bit unnerved when taxes go towards things like weapons of mass destruction, corporate bail outs, and campaign discretionary funds etc.

Knowing I can do very little if anything about this and still being told this is a government of the people, for the people, and by the people....tends to lead me to believe the goal of freedom...has not as of yet quite been reached.

Are we slaves in the strictest sense of the word? No......but that does'nt mean we are truly free either.

Can anyone catch my drift here?

Regarding your "ownership" of property:

"(CBS) Just about everyone knows that under a process called eminent domain, the government can (and does) seize private property for public use - to build a road, a school or a courthouse.

But did you know the government can also seize your land for private use if they can prove that doing it will serve what's called "the public good"?

Quote from an "Owner":

"For them to come in and tell me how much my property's worth and for me to get out because they're bringing in somebody else when I own the land is unfounded to me."
Shop owner Randy Bailey of Mesa, Ariz.

another:
"That's no excuse for taking my home. My home is not for sale. And if my home isn't safe, nobody's home is safe, in the whole country," says Jim Saleet. "Not only Ohio. But this is rampant all over the country. It's like a plague."

Diest quote:
with indentured servitude, one might volunteer him or herself to another for certain amenities.

Who is volunteering their property here? Who is the servant?

Thanks CI:
When we have a choice, I don't see that as "slavery."

The people who are refusing to sell their land....are they not criminals CI? Are they given a choice to sell their land?

Eminent domain says they are. It also says they have no choice and therefore does not have true ownership. They cannot pass on their property for instance to their children.

Is this moral?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

I see this question is avoided entirely:

IF the law does not exist (for argument sake) do you think a person should be prosecuted or charged as a criminal?

wonder why....?

Let's say we are free!!!.....Does our government(of and for the people) seem to think so? The gov is going a bit too far with this I think. What do you all think?

Sometimes people must resist to be and remain free. Kinda like repentance i think......

Jesus - king of kings lord of lords halleluljah

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hankarin wrote:

Did not at least one page of American History show how volatile this issue can become? "Man has dominated man to his injury." (Ecclesiastes 8:9) This is perhaps nowhere more evident than in the oppressive forms of slavery that have been devised by man.

Yep, and in full concordance with Gods laws as written in scripture.

hankarin wrote:

God is not indifferent to the suffering that slavery has caused. (Exodus 1:14; 2:23, 24; 6:6-8)

He was not indifferent to the slavery of Jews by non-Jews. Less concerned for enslavement of Jews by Jews and clearly could give a crap less about enslavement of non-Jews by Jews.

in Deuteronomy 20:10-11 Moses wrote:

10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

hankarin wrote:

Irrelevant. The question before us in this thread is "Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??"

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mesquite wrote:

. . . Blah, blah and blah. . .Irrelevant. The question before us in this thread is "Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??"

And the answer is . . .

He doesn't.

This is another example of Frank's outstanding ability to construct straw men.

BTW, I miss the old Geezer. I hope he's OK.

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mesquite wrote:

hankarin wrote:
Did not at least one page of American History show how volatile this issue can become? "Man has dominated man to his injury." (Ecclesiastes 8:9) This is perhaps nowhere more evident than in the oppressive forms of slavery that have been devised by man.

Quote:
Yep, and in full concordance with Gods laws as written in scripture.

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hankarin wrote:

Does not the fact that so many of us today are totally repulsed by the idea of slavery, and the misery associated with it, give some indication of God's real view of the matter.

No. It indicates your view of the matter. And a lot of other views.

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neologist wrote:

mesquite wrote:
. . . Blah, blah and blah. . .Irrelevant. The question before us in this thread is "Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??"
And the answer is . . .

He doesn't.

This is another example of Frank's outstanding ability to construct straw men.

No it isn't. There is no misrepresentation of the Biblical text in Frank's question. There is ample unambiguous justification for Frank's assertion.

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Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

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