2
   

Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2007 07:26 pm
But philosophy of life must be based on logic; it must be rational, and not conflict with what we learn about our materialistic universe.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2007 07:59 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
But philosophy of life must be based on logic; it must be rational, and not conflict with what we learn about our materialistic universe.
Exactly.
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2007 09:13 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
But philosophy of life must be based on logic; it must be rational, and not conflict with what we learn about our materialistic universe.

It should be rational, but it should not be limited only to what we can know through the senses. That is scientific knowledge. Science and logic are based on thought. We are more than our thoughts.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2007 10:14 pm
Yes, we are more than our thoughts. We are how others perceive us to be whether right or wrong. Some people claim that our actions speak louder than our words, but people can rarely know how we think. Sometimes our words don't really define who we are, but it can reveal some of our character.

Example: I think I used to be overly sensitive when I was a young man. As I grew older, I found that revealing my pimples and warts were not all that important. The people who make a big deal out of common imperfections just doesn't understand what life is all about - IMHO.

I respect people who speak their minds, but detest people who think they are smarter or better than others. That's the bottom line for me.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 05:11 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
But philosophy of life must be based on logic; it must be rational, and not conflict with what we learn about our materialistic universe.


The problem that arises here is there is so little known about the "supernatural" world. As such one can make up any story without fear of being proven wrong as nothing can be proven one way or another when it come to the "supernatural."

Take Christ and Joseph Smith for example. Both claimed to be delivering messages from God. Both had devote followers who believed them and their message.

But the difference is JS lived in an era when his warts could not be hidden. We see him as a cheating husband who eventually "received" from God, or angel, I don't know which, a message that authorized him to introduce polygamy. He needed polygamy to satisfy his sexual lusts.

Try to image what picture of JS would emerge if the only knowledge of him came from his devote followers. Nothing outside of what his followers said of him would be known.

That's the position of Christ. With the exception of the pagan Celsus we know virtually nothing about Christ except what his devotees wrote. If Mormonism is an example of how followers protect the sins of their leaders than I don't think you will get an honest picture of what the real Christ was like. It will be very distorted, bias and irrational.

Our knowledge of Christ is as limited as our knowledge of the supernatural. One may make and mold Christ into whatever shape they wish; and he was molded into many different shapes in the first few centuries following his death.

Today we have Christ as a God, the "perfect" human, whatever that is, who, like the pagan demigods, has come to earth to help mankind. In this case he has come to save our souls.

If you believe in me your saved and may live in my City of Gold; if not go to hell.
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 09:28 am
xingu wrote:
The problem that arises here is there is so little known about the "supernatural" world. As such one can make up any story without fear of being proven wrong as nothing can be proven one way or another when it come to the "supernatural."

Take Christ and Joseph Smith for example. Both claimed to be delivering messages from God. Both had devote followers who believed them and their message.

But the difference is JS lived in an era when his warts could not be hidden. We see him as a cheating husband who eventually "received" from God, or angel, I don't know which, a message that authorized him to introduce polygamy. He needed polygamy to satisfy his sexual lusts.

Try to image what picture of JS would emerge if the only knowledge of him came from his devote followers. Nothing outside of what his followers said of him would be known.

That's the position of Christ. With the exception of the pagan Celsus we know virtually nothing about Christ except what his devotees wrote. If Mormonism is an example of how followers protect the sins of their leaders than I don't think you will get an honest picture of what the real Christ was like. It will be very distorted, bias and irrational.

Our knowledge of Christ is as limited as our knowledge of the supernatural. One may make and mold Christ into whatever shape they wish; and he was molded into many different shapes in the first few centuries following his death.

Today we have Christ as a God, the "perfect" human, whatever that is, who, like the pagan demigods, has come to earth to help mankind. In this case he has come to save our souls.

If you believe in me your saved and may live in my City of Gold; if not go to hell.

Why are the historical facts about Jesus or Jospeh Smith important? They may be important if you are an historian. However, I would argue that the spiritual teachings ought to stand on their own, even if we know little or nothing about their origin. Many people read the bible knowing next to nothing about the historical Jesus, and yet they find the words of the bible communicate something profound to them.

As for the supernatural, it has to be known via personal experience and then correlated with the reported experiences and descriptions of others. In some respects, that is similar to science -- we do the "experiment" and see if others can confirm our "evidence". The difference is that with the supernatural we are using a way of knowing that does not involve the senses. If someone observes auras, observes energy flows associated with chakras, has memories of a past life, etc., they could assume they are having an hallucination or delusion. Or, they could read the literature about these topics and learn that lots of other people have had very similar experiences. At some point, the person begins to give some credibility to their experience, provided that there is no evidence of mental illness, brain dysfunction, etc. Until a person has such experiences, the descriptions may seem strange and nonsensical. There would probably be little use in considering supernatural phenomena until experiences of this type occur to you.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 11:37 am
IFF, That's where I find it difficult to understand or trust why people can believe in the "message of the bible." There are too many errors, omissions, and contradictions for its message to be "clear." Many theologians have difficulty with consistency when interpreting the bible.

Humans don't need a 1000 page book to tell us what's right and wrong; it's taught to us by our parents and peers in the environment we live in.

The only good message is "don't judge others," but the teachings of the bible concerning some aspects of life teach discrimination by fiat.
Homosexuals are sinners. It's okay to own slaves.

All those miracles claimed in the bible are meaningless; it's much worse than science fiction. At least science fiction can come true sometime in the future.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 11:42 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
IFF, That's where I find it difficult to understand or trust why people can believe in the "message of the bible." There are too many errors, omissions, and contradictions for its message to be "clear." Many theologians have difficulty with consistency when interpreting the bible.

Humans don't need a 1000 page book to tell us what's right and wrong; it's taught to us by our parents and peers in the environment we live in.

The only good message is "don't judge others," but the teachings of the bible concerning some aspects of life teach discrimination by fiat.
Homosexuals are sinners. It's okay to own slaves.

All those miracles claimed in the bible are meaningless; it's much worse than science fiction. At least science fiction can come true sometime in the future.
I havent read all the relevant posts, but I agree with you ci 100 percent.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 11:54 am
IFF wrote:
Why are the historical facts about Jesus or Jospeh Smith important?


It is important. Christians claim Jesus was a God. He wasn't. He was a sect leader in the Jewish religion. As such he would never proclaim himself a God. Jew do not believe Gods impregnate women and give birth to Gods. Pagans do.

Destroy the concept that Christ was a God and you destroy the major part of conservative Christianity. Remember Paul said the foundation of Christianity rests on the belief that Christ made a full body resurrection. Without that resurrection mankind is doomed, or so say conservative Christians.

BTW the message Jesus spread is nothing new or original. For example the Golden Rule can be found in most all, if not all, major religions and it predates Christ.

And as for loving ones God, has there been a religion that told their followers to hate their God?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:06 pm
xingu wrote:
. . . Jew do not believe Gods impregnate women and give birth to Gods. Pagans do. . . Remember Paul said the foundation of Christianity rests on the belief that Christ made a full body resurrection.
You shoild really cite scriptural sources when you make claims. Were you to then read the scriptural sources, you might be able to save yourself your time wasted.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:07 pm
neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
. . . Jew do not believe Gods impregnate women and give birth to Gods. Pagans do. . . Remember Paul said the foundation of Christianity rests on the belief that Christ made a full body resurrection.
You shoild really cite scriptural sources when you make claims. Were you to then read the scriptural sources, you might be able to save yourself your time wasted.


What do you disagree with?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:12 pm
Quote:
The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: "f the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13-18).


http://www.catholic.com/library/Resurrection_of_the_Body.asp
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:19 pm
xingu wrote:
Quote:
The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: "f the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13-18).


http://www.catholic.com/library/Resurrection_of_the_Body.asp
The galactic chasm between Catholic teachings and the bible has been well documented.

Paul does not say Jesus was raised in a full body.

Jesus was resurrected, not by himself as the Trinitarians would have us believe. And humans have the prospect of a bodily resurrection, but you are not only off the page, you are not even in the book.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:21 pm
Quote:
B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! (2)
SEE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS (back)

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm
0 Replies
 
IFeelFree
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:22 pm
cicerone imposter, Steve 41oo, xingu,

I'm the last one to try to justify all the weird stuff that's in the bible. I think its full of contradictions, obscure passages, questionable historical accounts, etc. (In fairness, however, the bible isn't just a history book. It appears to be a mixture of history, parables, symbolism, prophecy, allegories, etc.) However, what I have observed is that the bible, like other sacred documents, has the ability to create a spiritual change in people who are ready and open to it.

As to the claim that Jesus was a God, I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. Many Christians believe all kinds of things, many of which are flat-out wrong, in my humble opinion. I guess that shows that the bible may be a source of inspiration, moral guidance, and spiritual awakening, but it is not a source of information about the world, like a science textbook. Again, I assert that the historical facts about Jesus are not nearly as important as the spiritual message that many people get from it.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:30 pm
Neo

So you, like all the other religious "experts" out there, think you know the Bible better than anyone else. In doing so you have created your own religion, of sorts.

My posts are addressed to Christians. I don't think many conservative or moderate Christians would look upon you as a Christian.

Do you believe Christ is God?
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Do you believe in the full body resurrection of Christ?
Do you believe in the virgin birth?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:32 pm
You are certainly good at digging up research. Do you understand what it means?
Jesus had a prehuman existence.
He agreed to come to earth and live a perfect life, then die as a substitute for Adam.

Adam was perfect and sinned. Penalty: Death
Jesus was perfect and died. Adam's penalty mitigated.

Now all humans have the same prospect as did Adam and Eve. You can read the first 2 chapters of Genesis to find out what that was.

But Jesus was originally a spirit creature, God's firstborn, the one through whom all things were created. So his resurrection was a return to his original position beside his father.

As for why Jesus had to suffer torture and humiliation, that was Satan's idea. He hoped to prove that even the most important of God's creatures would cave in and refuse to serve him under pressure.

Scriptures provided on request, although oft times mentioned herein.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 12:36 pm
xingu wrote:
Neo

So you, like all the other religious "experts" out there, think you know the Bible better than anyone else. In doing so you have created your own religion, of sorts.

My posts are addressed to Christians. I don't think many conservative or moderate Christians would look upon you as a Christian.

Do you believe Christ is God? NO
Do you believe in the Trinity? NO
Do you believe in the full body resurrection of Christ? NO
Do you believe in the virgin birth?YES
I believe that which the bible supports
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 04:45 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Why does god need to be served? Ego?


Why does zero need all those numbers ahead of it? Does zero have an ego?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 04:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
IFF, That's where I find it difficult to understand or trust why people can believe in the "message of the bible." There are too many errors, omissions, and contradictions for its message to be "clear." Many theologians have difficulty with consistency when interpreting the bible.

Humans don't need a 1000 page book to tell us what's right and wrong; it's taught to us by our parents and peers in the environment we live in.

The only good message is "don't judge others," but the teachings of the bible concerning some aspects of life teach discrimination by fiat.
Homosexuals are sinners. It's okay to own slaves.

All those miracles claimed in the bible are meaningless; it's much worse than science fiction. At least science fiction can come true sometime in the future.


Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 01/31/2025 at 04:55:07