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Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

 
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 12:11 am
neologist wrote:
When you choose to use the bible to examine the bible, it dilutes your argument when you resort to the speculations of "mainline and liberal theologians".

My remark, "mainline and liberal theologians generally accept the "Documentary Hypothesis" which asserts that four authors over a period of centuries and from different locations in Palestine wrote the Moses books." was nothing more than a reply in kind to your remark "Moses is generally considered the author of all five books and the book of Job." Besides, I provided a link that explained the reasoning behind the multiple author hypothesis. We can discuss it if you like. I am interested in how you would explain the two complete interwoven stories of the Noahic Flood that is illustrated here.
Quote:
Chapter 7 and 8 are of particular interest, as the text switches frequently between the two main authors. The Redactor seems to have wanted to preserve both the J and P accounts more or less intact. As a result, the text is quite repetitious:
    In verses 7 and 13, J and P each describes Noah and family entering the ark. In verses 10 and 11, J and P both describe the start of the rains. In verses 17 and 18, J describes the increase of the waters and floating of the ark twice. In verses 21, 22 and 23, J and P describe the drowning of the people and animals.

neologist wrote:
Your argument about the 24 hour day fails again when you contemplate the time it must have taken for Adam to have named all the animals. (Genesis 2:19, 20) If you imagine that Moses gullibly believed the six creative days lasted only 144 hours under the 'all things possible with God' speculation, then how would it be possible for a human to name the animals in only 24 hours?

I haven't a clue as to how many animals would be involved in that naming activity since the Bible is rather vague in that area. Do you think the list should include "all living creatures" that we know have once lived but are now extinct? Do you think God presented to Adam for naming penguins and polar bears before poofing them to their domicile near opposite poles? Do we need to include the tiny ones such as insects or the even smaller microbes since the are living creatures, or can we exclude them since they are not fowl or beasts of the field? Did he do naming to the species level or just higher level groupings such as genus or family or order or class?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 08:55 am
How about those insects that live in pitch darkness in the caves of Tennessee? How many members in Naoh's family traveled to the US to collect those?
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 11:09 am
I'm curious about the carnivorous animals. Did Noah bring extra smaller animals to feed the larger meat eating creatures?

T
Karnavore
O
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 11:29 am
Don't forget dinosaurs. Real Life says they were on board as well. Don't know where he got that idea from but I'm sure it's from the Bible.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 11:37 am
Diest: I'm curious about the carnivorous animals. Did Noah bring extra smaller animals to feed the larger meat eating creatures?


Two of each wouldn't have been enough to "feed" all those animals for 40 days and 40 nights - or however long the rain lasted. It seems when the bible says "days," it really doesn't mean 24-hour days.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 03:30 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
How about those insects that live in pitch darkness in the caves of Tennessee? How many members in Naoh's family traveled to the US to collect those?
We were talking about Adam and how long it may have taken him to name all the animals. I submit that even an overview could not have been completed in a 24 hour day. Mesquite says he is not sure.

But since you have brought up the subject of Noah and how many animals or how much food or was the ark big enough. The only reasonable answer is that Noah's efforts were sufficient, much like the food supply for the widow of Zarephath (See 1 Kings ch.14)
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 03:55 pm
neologist wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
How about those insects that live in pitch darkness in the caves of Tennessee? How many members in Naoh's family traveled to the US to collect those?
We were talking about Adam and how long it may have taken him to name all the animals. I submit that even an overview could not have been completed in a 24 hour day. Mesquite says he is not sure.

But since you have brought up the subject of Noah and how many animals or how much food or was the ark big enough. The only reasonable answer is that Noah's efforts were sufficient, much like the food supply for the widow of Zarephath (See 1 Kings ch.14)
this is a joke right?

naming all the animals? Mr and Mrs Lion and their electrician son Py

Zed 'n Barbara Crossing and their daughter Pedestrian

Percy Puma

had no sense of humour
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 04:04 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
. . . this is a joke right?

naming all the animals? Mr and Mrs Lion and their electrician son Py

Zed 'n Barbara Crossing and their daughter Pedestrian

Percy Puma

had no sense of humour
Nor did Steve Slug. Laughing

Though I assume that Moses figured Adam had named slugs in general, lions, tigers, etc.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 04:48 pm
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 05:44 pm
mesquite wrote:
. . . I would expect that to the authors of Genesis It was quite reasonable for Adam to name all of the animals in one day as they had no clue of the size of this planet nor the magnitude of the diversity of life that it supports.
That ignorant, eh? How in the world did they learn to write?
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 06:00 pm
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . . I would expect that to the authors of Genesis It was quite reasonable for Adam to name all of the animals in one day as they had no clue of the size of this planet nor the magnitude of the diversity of life that it supports.
That ignorant, eh? How in the world did they learn to write?

Ignorance of the earth's size and biological diversity by primitive people infers lack of information. It does not infer that they lacked intelligence.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 06:16 pm
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
mesquite wrote:
. . . I would expect that to the authors of Genesis It was quite reasonable for Adam to name all of the animals in one day as they had no clue of the size of this planet nor the magnitude of the diversity of life that it supports.
That ignorant, eh? How in the world did they learn to write?

Ignorance of the earth's size and biological diversity by primitive people infers lack of information. It does not infer that they lacked intelligence.
In which case, you would have to wonder how Moses would not have known the creative days were not literal.

One would have to scratch one's head over the failure to mention the end of the seventh day. Or how he could be so clueless as to declare God and his works to be perfect while allowing the first humans to fail at the outset.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 09:02 pm
It is abundantly clear that Moses (or J) intended for the creative days to be literal solar days.

When it comes to the books attributed to Moses there is an abundance of material one could scratch one's head about. In that vein, the questions that you choose not to respond to are becoming more telling than the ones that you do.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 08:50 am
mesquite wrote:
It is abundantly clear that Moses intended for the creative days to be literal solar days. . .
(links removed)
You have defined the axioms which permit your conclusion. . .
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 10:05 am
neologist wrote:
You have defined the axioms which permit your conclusion. . .


No neo, that would be you. I am basing my conclusion on the language that was used as I noted here and which you have totally ignored. You would rather choose an alternate meaning for the word day (yom) that is out of context.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 11:12 am
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
You have defined the axioms which permit your conclusion. . .


No neo, that would be you. I am basing my conclusion on the language that was used as I noted here and which you have totally ignored. You would rather choose an alternate meaning for the word day (yom) that is out of context.
But even a cursory Google search turns up explanations such as may be found here, which supports the contention that the creative days are not literal.

Lack of agreement between those who call themselves believers is no surprise. I've always contended that believers give more ammunition to the unbelievers than they could possibly manufacture for themselves.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 03:26 pm
http://www.godisimaginary.com/gif/question-video-icon.gif
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 05:50 pm
Good site ros.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 07:01 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
http://www.godisimaginary.com/gif/question-video-icon.gif
!0 Straw men.

I guess. I choked on my beer after number 4,

Of course many so called christians might not have been told by their preachers that the god of this world is not the God who created the world.

These questions could be disturbing to them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 08:44 pm
neo: Of course many so called christians might not have been told by their preachers that the god of this world is not the God who created the world.

Care to explain that?

Also, you say they're "10 Straw men" but fail to explain why. Please explain each one, and why they are "straws?" You do know what a red herring is?
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