Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

xingu wrote:

Rex and Neo mentioned that there are two Gods in the Bible.

Well if you read the Bible you will find there are more than two, there are multiply Gods.
. . .

There are two sides to the main issue in the universe:

In this corner:
The true God. The one who created all things. The one whose name, Jehovah, means "He who causes to become". Jehovah has angels and representatives.

In this corner:
The challenger. The one who desires credit for himself. The one called Satan, meaning 'rebel' or 'resister'. Satan has his own cadre of rebel angels.

The angels of Jehovah do not seek credit for themselves. They direct their worship to Jehovah.

The angels of Satan, on the other hand, are all very content to have humans worship them in any form and by any name. So long as attention is drawn away from Jehovah, it serves their purpose for folks to follow American Idols, the almighty dollar, sports heroes, Dagon, Molech. . . Bigfoot? Extraterrestrials? Why not? Just fill in the blanks.

So yes, there are many gods serving the rebel, and one true God.

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So which one is Saten?

The one in the OT that kills everyone because he doesn't like the way the behave or believe?

Or the one in the NT who kills everyone because he doesn't like the way they behave or believe.

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xingu wrote:

So which one is Saten? . . .

I don't think any of them are named Saten. Are you thinking of starting a new religion? Perhaps Saten is the name of the god who convinces folks that NDE is truth.

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neologist wrote:

xingu wrote:
So which one is Saten? . . .
I don't think any of them are named Saten. Are you thinking of starting a new religion? Perhaps Saten is the name of the god who convinces folks that NDE is truth.

Well I was under the impression that one of them was Satan. Isn't Satan the one who tried to tempt Christ?

But if neither is Saten than you believe in two Gods?

You don't appear to be a Christian and your beliefs, what ever they are, are unconventional.

No God is the author of NDE. It's the experience of thousands. They just relate what happens to them. Draw your own conclusions.

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xingu wrote:

neologist wrote:
xingu wrote:
So which one is Saten? . . .
I don't think any of them are named Saten. Are you thinking of starting a new religion? Perhaps Saten is the name of the god who convinces folks that NDE is truth.

Well I was under the impression that one of them was Satan. Isn't Satan the one who tried to tempt Christ?

But if neither is Saten than you believe in two Gods?

You don't appear to be a Christian and your beliefs, what ever they are, are unconventional.

No God is the author of NDE. It's the experience of thousands. They just relate what happens to them. Draw your own conclusions.

The god of this system of things is called Satan. Saten, however is a god I have not heard of.

But, since "Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. . .", who am I to say he did not merely change a letter in his name to convince folks the light they see in NDE is real? (2Corinthians 11:14)

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Well excuse my spelling.

That 2Corinthians 11:14 seems to be a nice little catch all for you guys. Anything you don't agree with-----2Corinthians 11:14.

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BTW Neo, do you agree with this?

Quote:

III. FACTS ABOUT HELL

A. A place of everlasting destruction: 2 Th 1:9; Phil 3:19; Heb 10:39

B. A place of conscious punishment

1. Both the rich man and Lazarus were fully conscious: Lk 16:19-31

2. "away from the presence of God": 2 Th 1:9

a) indicates conscious existence in exile not annihilation

3. A place of suffering, affliction and retribution: 2 Th 1:5-8

4. Weeping and gnashing of teeth: Mt 13:42,50; 25:30

C. Duration of punishment is forever, eternity

1. The same words that describe hell also describe God and duration of heaven

a) forever: Rev 14:11; 20:10

b) black darkness forever: Jude 13

c) Eternal: Mt 25:46 (heaven and hell alike)

2. Eternal day of Christians is same duration as eternal night of lost

3. The undying worm, everlastingly consuming an unconsumable body

4. No second chance:

a) Appointed to die once then comes judgement: Heb 9:27

b) Great gulf fixed between good and bad: Lk 16

5. Annihilation is a false doctrine:

http://www.bible.ca/su-hell.htm

or this

http://www.bible.ca/su-heaven-hell-photogallery.htm

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No. scriptures misrepresented

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neologist wrote:

No. scriptures misrepresented

By you or them?

You see everyone thinks everyone else is mistaken. That's why the Bible is false. God would never write a book because he would be wise enough to know that no one could agree or understand it.

It would be a waste of time and lead to conflict, hate and violence.

And the contradictions in the Bible that drive people crazy.

Quote:

19. The Bible, Christianity's basic text, is riddled with contradictions. There are a number of glaring contradictions in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, and including some within the same books. A few examples:

". . . God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
(James:1:13)
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
(Genesis 22:1)

". . . for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever."
(Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever. Thus saith the Lord."
(Jeremiah 17:4)

"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
(John 5:31, J.C. speaking)
"I am one that bear witness of myself . . ."
(John 8:18, J.C. speaking)

and last but not least:

"I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
(Genesis 32:30)
"No man hath seen God at any time."
(John 1:18)
"And I [God] will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts . . ."
(Exodus 33:23)

Christian apologists typically attempt to explain away such contradictions by claiming that the fault lies in the translation, and that there were no contradictions in the original text. It's difficult to see how this could be so, given how direct many biblical contradictions are; but even if these Christian apologetics held water, it would follow that every part of the Bible should be as suspect as the contradictory sections, thus reinforcing the previous point: that the Bible is not a reliable guide to Christ's words.

http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html#numbernineteen

And I [God] will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts . . ."
(Exodus 33:23)
Does God walk about naked?

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Contradictions exist in the mental inclination of the reader.

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neologist wrote:

Allow me to add some color.
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

The tree of life is only one of the problems that verse 22 causes. It confirms that the serpent spoke the truth on both accounts as the colors show.

[4] But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. They are dead, are they not? [5] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." And humans have been making "outstanding" moral decisions ever since. [/size]
[22]Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. "
While you are at it, can you say for certain that the tree of life was not meant for A&E to partake at a later time? Your guess is as good as mine.
Sorry if I messed up the format.

Since we are discussing a Bible story and the Bible says Adam died after 930 years, yes, we can say that he is dead. However, he did not die in the day that he ate the fruit as God told him he would.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

I think we can safely say that he died of a God induced diet deficiency.

Gen 3:24 (ESV) He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

I am not sure what you mean by your question can you say for certain that the tree of life was not meant for A&E to partake at a later time?.

All that we know for certain is what the story gives us.

We do know that eating from the tree of life allowed one to live forever.

We do know that God denied Adam and Eve access to that tree after they had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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It is obvious from the language of Genesis that God does not always measure days in terms of 24 hours.
First of All, Genesis 2:4 lumps all of the creative days into one: "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
The seventh day has never been recorded as having ended.
"For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past,
And as a watch during the night." (Psalm 90:4)

A&E, lost their physical perfection and began to die as soon as they disobeyed. You have heard the term 'dead man walking', have you not?

As far as the tree of life is concerned, the fact that I am not willing to speculate does not mean there is no explanation. If it's so important, I will spend some time on it.

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xingu wrote:

How can one please a God that is so fickle. And why do we have to please God? Are we his slaves? Is that what life is all about; our only purpose for existance is to give pleasure to God?

If that is so then you have given us an excellent reason to see the God in the Bible as a false God; a creature made by man.

Galatians 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

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RexRed wrote:

xingu wrote:
How can one please a God that is so fickle. And why do we have to please God? Are we his slaves? Is that what life is all about; our only purpose for existance is to give pleasure to God?

If that is so then you have given us an excellent reason to see the God in the Bible as a false God; a creature made by man.

Galatians 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

You didn't answer the question. Try expressing yourself rather than pulling unrelated quotes from the Bible.

BTW, how rich do you suppose you would be if you had a dollar for every person in history who received revelations from Christ or God?

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xingu wrote:

...how rich do you suppose you would be if you had a dollar for every person in history who received revelations from Christ or God?

Pretty rich, I would imagine. Unfortunately, religion is rife with charlatans who have discredited spiritual teachings. The strength of science it that it has a mechanism for weeding out the bullshit. Unfortunately, this has caused many people to be cynical about the possibility for real spiritual truth. It has nothing to do with pleasing a God. Finding your purpose begins with finding out who you really are. Who wouldn't want inner peace, if such a thing is possible? The alternative is endless seeking for happiness in the things of the world which ultimately disappoint.

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neologist wrote:

It is obvious from the language of Genesis that God does not always measure days in terms of 24 hours.
First of All, Genesis 2:4 lumps all of the creative days into one: "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
The seventh day has never been recorded as having ended.
"For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past,
And as a watch during the night." (Psalm 90:4)

The creation days were clearly 24 hour days as the Hebrew word yom was used with a number and the phrasing evening and morning. Whenever yom is used with a number modifier it refers to a literal 24 hour day. This is true in the 359 uses of that word outside chapter one of Genesis. The seventh day fits this pattern the same as all the others associated with a number. The psalm quote merely refers to the perception of time.

neologist wrote:

A&E, lost their physical perfection and began to die as soon as they disobeyed. You have heard the term 'dead man walking', have you not?

.
Perfection? Where does god say he made them perfect? In Genesis 1:31 God said he made them very good not perfect.

[31]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

They didn't even know good from bad. Had they been made perfect God would not have had to boot them out of Eden.

neologist wrote:

As far as the tree of life is concerned, the fact that I am not willing to speculate does not mean there is no explanation. If it's so important, I will spend some time on it.

It is important because it is given as the reason for booting A&E out of Eden. lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

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Dear oh dear, I have already told you I have no ****ing idea why the god of the Old Testament considers slavery to be moral...

and to be blunt neither do you guys

but the religionists could at least direct the question upwards for us, then perhaps we might get a definitive answer and call a halt to this very silly thread.

ok rant over

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It is kind of pathetic to watch. Although, I do admire Mesquite's ability to whack Neo's dreamy sense of the myth.
"They lost their physical perfection...."
"Where does God say he made them perfect?"
(He doesn't, but it must seem nicer somehow to Neo.

And you're right, Steve, this whole thread the Biblists have danced like angels on the head of a pin around the question asked by Frank so long ago. They offered variants of "Tweren't real slavery" to "Okay, there were slaves, but you couldn't beat them to death." As if that makes everything hunkydory morally. No one can explain how a just god would entertain for an instant the enslavement of one human by another.

So, they ask different questions: How many Gods are there in the Bible? What is the power of Satan? Is the Tree of Life still guarded by angels?
As if the answers to any of these questions brings any clarity to reality.

Some friends and I once spent a semester of college debating the various aspects of Superman and his life. One of the hot topics was "Where did Clark Kent put his clothes when he changed into Superman?"

Joe(Fun, and no one was killed because they didn't believe in the power of Green Kryptonite.)Nation

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Dear oh dear, I have already told you I have no ****ing idea why the god of the Old Testament considers slavery to be moral...

and to be blunt neither do you guys

but the religionists could at least direct the question upwards for us, then perhaps we might get a definitive answer and call a halt to this very silly thread.

ok rant over

Why is slavery moral in the Bible?

Because the guys who wrote this crap in the Bible were slave owners. What the hell do you thing slave owners are going to do, make slavery immoral?

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mesquite wrote:

neologist wrote:
Allow me to add some color.
mesquite wrote:
neologist wrote:
I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

The tree of life is only one of the problems that verse 22 causes. It confirms that the serpent spoke the truth on both accounts as the colors show.

[4] But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. They are dead, are they not? [5] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." And humans have been making "outstanding" moral decisions ever since. [/size]
[22]Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. "
While you are at it, can you say for certain that the tree of life was not meant for A&E to partake at a later time? Your guess is as good as mine.
Sorry if I messed up the format.

Since we are discussing a Bible story and the Bible says Adam died after 930 years, yes, we can say that he is dead. However, he did not die in the day that he ate the fruit as God told him he would.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

I think we can safely say that he died of a God induced diet deficiency.

Gen 3:24 (ESV) He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

I am not sure what you mean by your question can you say for certain that the tree of life was not meant for A&E to partake at a later time?.

All that we know for certain is what the story gives us.

We do know that eating from the tree of life allowed one to live forever.

We do know that God denied Adam and Eve access to that tree after they had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

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Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

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