Why does the god of the Bible consider slavery to be moral??

Actually, you are right in your last statement. There two Gods mentioned in the bible.

neologist wrote:

Actually, you are right in your last statement. There two Gods mentioned in the bible.

So much for monotheism. Any other gods get an honourable mention? Zeus or Ra for instance?

And what do we call these believers in a dual God? Half way between trinitarians and muslims? Trinlims?

mesquite wrote:

. . .
Is killing a tree for not bearing fruit out of season a reasonable response by any standard?

Except that it represents the judgement against those who claim to represent God, but fail to do his will. (Matthew 7: 21-23)

neologist wrote:

Actually, you are right in your last statement. There two Gods mentioned in the bible.

So much for monotheism. Any other gods get an honourable mention? Zeus or Ra for instance?

And what do we call these believers in a dual God? Half way between trinitarians and muslims? Trinlims?

cicerone imposter wrote:

"Do not eat from the fruit of a certain tree" is about as stupid as they come, knowing that humans would eventually enjoy eating most of the non-poisonous fruits this world has to offer.

Is god so simple-minded that he must command man not to eat fruit? What a dork!

Except for the fact that the tree represented their acquiescence to God's standards.

It wasn't anything about dietary choice, you know.

Steve 41oo wrote:

neologist wrote:

Actually, you are right in your last statement. There two Gods mentioned in the bible.

So much for monotheism. Any other gods get an honourable mention? Zeus or Ra for instance?

And what do we call these believers in a dual God? Half way between trinitarians and muslims? Trinlims?

Actually, god # 2 doesn't care much what you call him.

I have heard this before, about two Gods, from Rex. My impression is the other God is the Devil. Most Christians do not believe this. . . .

neologist wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

"Do not eat from the fruit of a certain tree" is about as stupid as they come, knowing that humans would eventually enjoy eating most of the non-poisonous fruits this world has to offer.

Is god so simple-minded that he must command man not to eat fruit? What a dork!

Except for the fact that the tree represented their acquiescence to God's standards.

It wasn't anything about dietary choice, you know.

It wasn't a moral choice either as Joe so eloquently explained to you here.
With no moral compass to guide them Adam and Eve were setup for a fall. And that scenerio is completely within the character of the god portrayed throughout the Old Testament.

Joe's attempt at explanation makes sense to those who don't wish to understand the bible. The idea that A&E were duped by God into thinking that the fruit might be dangerous and had no other relevance is a cynical implication that the consequences of their actions were either know in advance or planned by God in some sort of sadistic act of cosmic brutality.

While I realize that many hold this view, it is not consistent with the bible's account and misrepresents reality. For how could God create in mankind their frequently exhibited qualities of love and mercy if he did not possess them himself? Jesus referred to these qualities in his Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 7:9)

I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

neologist wrote:

I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

The "tree of life" is a symbol for the human nervous system, with its branching structure. When consciousness functions through the human nervous system, "your eyes [are] opened", there is perception of the physical world, and you are aware of good and evil -- the duality of embodied existence.

I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

neologist wrote:

I have no complete explanation for the tree of life other than speculation. But, as for the significance of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, I stand pat.

The tree of life is only one of the problems that verse 22 causes. It confirms that the serpent spoke the truth on both accounts as the colors show.

[4] But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. They are dead, are they not? [5] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." And humans have been making "outstanding" moral decisions ever since. [/size]
[22]Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. "

How many Gods are there, one or many?

One God
(Deuteronomy 6:4) - "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!"

(Isaiah 43:10) - ". . . Before Me [YHWH] there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me."

(Isaiah 44:6) - ". . . there is no God besides Me."

(Isaiah 44:8) - ". . . And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Many gods
(Genesis 1:26) - "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness . . ."

(Genesis 3:22) - "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil . . ."

(Genesis 11:7) - "Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

(1 Corinthians 8:5) - "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords")."

(1 John 5:8) - "For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."

The Bible tells us that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). However, it also mentions "other gods." For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:1), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence. Gal. 4:8 says, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods." See also, Isaiah 37:19 and Jeremiah 2:11. God tells us that he alone is the true God and that all of the invented gods of man do not exist except in their own minds. So, we can see that the Bible is not contradicting itself regarding how many gods there are in existence. There is only one.

Note: in the verses in Genesis that have God saying "Let us make..., Let us go down . . . , etc." are clues to the Trinitarian nature of God. God is a Trinity of persons: a Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are not three Gods, but one. There are those who insist that the Trinity is polytheistic. But it is not. Trinitarians believe in a single being who is God.

Has anyone seen God or not?
Exodus 24:9-11, Exodus 33:11; Exodus 6:2-3, John 1:18

Has seen

(Gen. 17:1) - "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;

(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day."

(Exodus 6:2-3) - "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty , but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them."

(Exodus 24:9-11) - "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank."

(Num. 12:6-8) - "He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision . I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses ?"

(Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . "

Has not seen

(Exodus 33:20) - "But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"

(John 1:18) - "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."

(John 5:37) - ""And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form."

(John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father."

(1 Tim. 6:15-16) - "He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion ! Amen."

It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the "can't-see-God" verses, some would understandably argue that there would be a contradiction. Once explanation offered is that the people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26; Judges 13:1-21) and not really God Himself. But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3).

At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible--which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.

The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father. This is typically how John writes of God: as a reference to the Father. We see this verified in Jesus own words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.