I watch the ripples change their size...

puppy sounds like a good idea....

but now that I type that I'm wondering if you could handle a puppy on top of everything else....

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A light that sparked & shorted-out would be alarming. Puppy is a good idea... though a dog takes a lot of attention, more than a child can handle and so it won't necessarily be his dog. It might not even want to sleep with him. Sometimes they don't... then you've got a whining puppy scratching at the door... and THAT keeps everybody up. In my experience dogs tend to love the lady of the house... a lot. I'd still say get the puppy since I love dogs, but it might not be the panacea you hope.

Keeping kids busy is always a good thing. Even if you put a radio in there so he'd focus on that instead of his thoughts. It' a little creepy that he's afraid of the room. Do I have it right, he's afraid of the room where he doesn't sleep but he plays there?

Did you ask him why he's afraid? If he were mine, I'd sit in the room with him and we'd talk about it. I'd mention places that looked scary to me and we'd discuss how to make it less so. I'd be trying to turn the entire thing into a lot of silliness & encouraging big rounds of laughter. Cookies might be involved and it would become our thing... a joke between us.

I don't envy you having him as your sleeping partner. I was very pleased when I was able to get my son tucked safely in his own room but he had various night fears for his first few years. There were the nights of musical beds. There are several reasons why it becomes more and more difficult. Luckily, my daughter never wanted to sleep with me. She wanted her own space right away. There are ways around this, too. Learn to become an unpleasant sleeping companion... kick, take the covers, cough. Have more than one place to sleep so that if he follows you to one place, you go to another. Eventually it will sort itself out.

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I have some foam ear plugs, the disposable kind, but I think I really need to invest in the good kind. I used to be a very sound sleeper before I became a parent. Now every rattle and ping wakes me up.

I know, I know, Osso. Your feelings are the most common and I have heard it all before and then twice again. There is a very mixed opinion on this. The professionals I have spoken too don't seem to think it makes a huge difference one way or the other, some even think that it is beneficial, all insist that everyone having a good night's sleep is critical to a well functioning family.

Every professional that I have read or spoken to says that children will insist on leaving the bed by the age of ten -- deciding on their own that it is time.

Studies, professionals, blahblahblah aside, it works for us. Everybody's happy. The transition is not out of frustration but as a goal. I could defend my decisions all day long, and back it up with facts and essays, but really we're fine with Asian style sleeping.

And oh.....

I could so totally deal with a puppy. I love dogs. I'm great with dogs. Mo loves dogs. He's great with dogs. One of our dogs died last July and we really do need to add another to the pack and I think it's time for Mo to have his "own" dog.

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I hadn't seen your comments on asians.

The asians I know haven't talked much about their many years of sleeping with mother, but of course I haven't asked.

I'm not against learning that I'm wrong to be iffy on all this.

(not to be crude, tough as it sounds, but at what age does he get out of bed?)

One of my problems re people in their thirties looking at divorce, is that some of them have never lived alone at all and there is a large fear.

^
I wrote that post a while ago, might take it back, might not. My point of view at a moment in time.

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I see my post was late, am pondering.

Ten?

Well, all in all, none of my business. (moves off site, freaks out)

On asians, I've known a bunch of adults as they've known me. We've been fine, what'e're their former sleep habits, or mine.

None of them told me they slept with mom until ten. I'll have to make some phone calls. Or maybe I won't. Thinking about it.

This may impel me to call my two mentors...

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boomerang wrote:

I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flak for this.....

He sleeps with me.

This is a looooong story but I'll try to make it quick:

When Mo first came to live here he wouldn't leave my side. I got in the habit of laying down with him until he went to sleep and then moving to my own bed.

Then Mo would wake up and sneak into our bed.

The Mr. B would wake up and move into Mo's bed.

Musical beds!

Finally we got things situated to resembling normal.

I don't know if I was just sleeping lighter or if Mr. B suddenly became a horrible snorer but I could never sleep the night through because of his snoring.

So I would wake up and go sleep on the sofa -- which wasn't very comfortable -- especially because it would wake up Mo and he would come sleep on the sofa.

Round and round and round.

Finally we decided we all just needed a good night's sleep so now Mo sleeps with me and Mr. B sleeps in Mo's room and we all rest.

One of the hopes behind moving the furniture was to get Mo to sleep in his own room. (Of course, now I'll have to do something about Mr. B's snoring.)

And yes, I have discussed this with both his doctor and mine and they assure us that whatever it takes for everyone to get a good night's sleep is all that really matters.

So the sleeping bit doesn't have anything to do with why he doesn't like his room.

And no, he is not sent to his room for punishment. Never. (This is another long story so let's just let it stay at that -- closing Mo off from the family is a really bad idea.)

I don't know what started the being afraid of his room but he hates to go in there. The only thing I can think of is that his overhead light shorted out a while back. It was repaired quickly without much fuss but the wires coming out of the ceiling seemed to freak him out.

That is interesting....I have worked with a couple of kids really freaked out by wires.

One had (for reasons I won't take time to explain) got them all mixed up with veins and arteries. Another was just freaked out by thinking of them going all through the house.

Kids. We is all weird as kids.

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Oh, that's right... I remember you talking about dogs. Good... puppy love is a wonderful thing.

I am totally with you on the sleeping Asian-style and it is not a huge problem emotionally, spiritually, etc., imo. It was a physical problem for me because I sleep best nekkid. Truly, it cramped my style having a small child wanting to bed down with me. My kicking, coughing, pulling the covers trick works pretty good for getting the dog(s) off the bed, too.

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ten?

well, ok, this is new to me. I am capable of learning. Is this usual? and dad goes by by?

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Mr. B has for sure not gone bye-bye.

We're talking about sleeping.

Here's the thing that speaks to me:

Quote:

Attachment and sleeping environment

Early work by John Bowlby noted that the mother and baby pair who were continuously together would have a secure attachment relationship (Bowlby, 1953 cited in Davies, 1995). It is believed that the emotional security of the baby benefits from skin-to-skin contact during the night (Davies, 1995). In a study of early childhood cosleeping by Hayes, Roberts, and Stowe (1996) it was found that infants and children who were solitary sleepers had a much stronger attachment to a security object and were more likely to be disturbed by that object's absence than cosleepers. In a 1992 study of soft object and pacifier attachments in children (Lehman, Denham, Moser, & Reeves) 40% of children with dual soft object and pacifier attachments, and 80% of children with attachments to pacifiers alone were rated as having an insecure attachment relationship with their mothers by 19 months. Attachment benefits of cosleeping are not limited to mother and child; fathers also report enjoying additional time to bond with the baby as a direct result of sharing a sleeping area (Davies, 1995; Seabrook, 1999; Thevenin, 1987). Fathers who share the family bed are likely to experience less disturbed sleep, because babies do not have to awake fully and cry to get their needs met.

I didn't have those first few years. Making up for them takes even longer. I won't apoligize for these decisions I've made.

--------------------------------------------

The wires thing is very interesting, dlowan......

Thinking, thinking, always thinking.....

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I grew up with the family bed thing, and I'se turned out okay, depending on who you ask... Wink

There were problems for my family, and I do think osso is right that it can be a problem for the parents at some point, due to the lack of closeness for them...but I think it only became a problem for my parents because they were simply awful at communication.

As far as my mental health, it did get weird for me when I needed to get my own space as I got older, but that was just a weird dynamic in that situation (long story); you wouldn't have that problem.

Anyway, I'm just chiming in to add to the it's-really-not-weird-or-that-unusual side of the thing, just to be sure you don't feel singled out, Boomerang, although I doubt you need the moral support-- but just in case. Smile

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I knda feel like I've pried open your privacy a little, sorry
I have spent many nights on the couch through choice (its just easier for me to sleep) but it would test the realtionship if I couldnt jump into bed and snuggle up with my beautiful, warm, soft skinned woman whenever I wanted to.

Do you think the tantrum may have been about stability? Changed family arrangements must have been a pretty big thing for Mo and now just as things are getting settled into a routine everything changes again.

Maybe he's smarter than we know and has figured out you want him out of your bed and into his own.

Music for his new room? Softly and constantly playing in the background. same song or set of songs over and over. stability. let him choose and change

Kids love repetition. I think it enables them. there is SO MUCH new stuff happening all the time, that being able to predict what is going to happen becomes important.
Both my kids would ask for the same book over and over, as a beditme story, drove me nuts. I can still remember the words, and the youngest is 15. I got in trouble if I changed the words! "Daddy thats not right! read properly"

I better go, I'm getting all nostalgic

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For the snoring, if earplugs don't do it for you, do what I do to combat all the noises of apartment living. Wear CD player headphones to bed with a soothing CD on very low volume, playing on repeat mode. Might be a way to soothe Mo in his own room too. Make a CD of his favorite comfy music, and perhaps record your own voice on the CD for him, telling him how much you love him and let him fall asleep to the CD playing in his room. Tell him if he wakes up in the night, he can turn the CD back on to have it play until he falls asleep again. Show him how to turn it on himself.

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Aw, you big mushmellow! You put a big smile on my face with those memories of yours.

I hadn't seen your post when I posted the idea about the CD. Seems we are on the same track there.

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Quick thing re the snoring -- because I'm not a parent but I do know snoring -- has Mr. B been checked for sleep apnea? It causes extensive buzz-saw-type snoring.

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Boomer--

I don't think the problem is "sleeping". I think the problem is "change" Mo just doesn't like change.

His reservations about school could stem from being afraid his home world will change in his absence.

I've read about many-many, teeny-tiny steps for adults overcoming phobias. Perhaps you could adapt this technique for getting Mo used to a mutable universe?

Tell him that Puppy is on the way and as Master of Puppy he's going to have to become very, very observant because Puppies are dumb about announcing their needs.

He'll have to become an Observant Detective.

Every day when he's in school make a tiny change to one room. Turn a chair to face the wall. Move a vase from a high place to a low place (and be ready to catch). Switch pictures.

When he comes home challenge him to find the change--and help you change it back.

Start discussing "Change as a Condition of Life"

Do you have any baby clothes he's outgrown? Does he remember for all of December he was a boy who didn't have a minibike to ride? Is he looking forward to Strawberry Season?

A kid that active has bruises and scrapes. Point out that healing is change. A puppy will be a change.

I don't mean long, philosophical discussions. I mean catch-him-on-the-way-past comments.

Hold your dominion.

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Read through the thread and see that Noddy mentioned the not going to school cause you might change things. He doesn't know what he'll come home to. How much will things change? Will you guys even be there? Not that I think he's actually understanding the reasons or would be able to verbalize them.

I like Noddy's last post. I'd go with that.

Re: sleeping arrangements - I was never real stuffy about that until step-cub was ending up sideways in the bed and Bear and I were squished onto 2 feet on one side. At that point we would have him crawl in for a few minutes until he felt comfortable and then suggested he return to his bed with the condition that if he was scared he could come back again. He stopped coming in after about a week or so. Either he started sleeping through, learned to comfort / calm himself or just grew out of it since he was 7 or 8 at that time.

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Good stuff here.

I'd guess that the long week you had (cabin fever week) may have had something to do with it, too. A few reasons -- disruption in routine (we go to school every weekday, oh except when we don't), getting used to spending more time with you, etc. Sozlet often reacts that way when she's had more time with me than usual -- she wants more of it (then gets over it).

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'Tis okay, dadpad. No need to apologize. I'm not embarrassed about it or anything but it always seems to open a can of worms with people who believe kids should be more independant - that's the American way.

I'll have to think on the music thing.... we always used to play music at night but now he really likes serious rock/metal music. Not exactly soothing, that.

I like the gradual change, being observant ideas a lot, Noddy, and pointing out happy changes is wonderful. I'll give that a go. I'm still trying to convince Mr. B that a puppy is a grand idea -- I don't want to make any promises of puppydom until I get that settled.

I think he's trying to turn the tables on me. He decided yesterday that his name is Simba and he gets terrifically mad if I forget to call him that.

I'm having a hard time getting used to the change.

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Did you see this article in Sunday's NYT?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/fashion/21love.html

I already thought of you and Mo when I read it, the name change brings it to mind again.

Some really lovely lines in it. I especially liked:

Quote:

I suppose I've come around to the beginning, to the anxious and delicious waiting and who-is-this-going-to-be? We know these children in the way we know the heavens, basing our knowledge on the lights that arrive in our orbit possibly already extinguished at the source.

Like a star's light, the flickerings of a child's mind may well be gone by the time they reach our understanding. We fumble with our faulty equipment to find that they love dragons as they discover Bionicles and robots. We remember their care for animals as they suddenly become, like a niece of ours, a poet. We besiege their fort with our questions, little harmless arrows breaking against the portcullis.

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That sounds like a great article.

Unfortunatly I'm having a hard time signing in..... don't know what the problem is.....

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I watch the ripples change their size...

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