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non-binding resolution

 
 
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 01:44 pm
what a crock of shiit this is. Kerry says "it sends a message" really, to who?
Congress either puts spending controls on Bush's war budget or they don't. Pretty simple.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,025 • Replies: 23
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 01:49 pm
Re: non-binding resolution
dyslexia wrote:
what a crock of shiit this is. Kerry says "it sends a message" really, to who?
Congress either puts spending controls on Bush's war budget or they don't. Pretty simple.


They aren't ready yet.

The Dems are waiting for the public support to wane further on the war before they hit home with actual threats to cut off money. Another 5-7% drop in Bush's approvals pretty much guarantees that there won't be a backlash from the American public on such an action...

I agree with you that a stronger stance from the Dems would be more profitable to them, but hey, these guys are as interested in covering their ass as they are getting soldiers out of Iraq, so...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:05 pm
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:08 pm
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:11 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn

Let's make all of our policy decisions based on public opinion polls, and never do the right thing regardless of the political fallout.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:14 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn

Let's make all of our policy decisions based on public opinion polls, and never do the right thing regardless of the political fallout.

we already do that, it's called having elections.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:20 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn

Let's make all of our policy decisions based on public opinion polls, and never do the right thing regardless of the political fallout.


You missed the second paragraph - you and those who have advocated the policies you supoprt can no longer be trusted to judge what the 'right thing' is. That's what happens when you have a track record of failures, mistakes, lies, and secrecy to point at when it comes to decisions in the past.

In fact, I would judge that the correct course of action in Iraq would be the opposite of whatever is proposed by the NeoCon crowd...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:21 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn








There's a huge difference between cutting funds, which is the crux of the thread and withdrawl..which is so far not in any immediate military strategy.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:25 pm
Brand X wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn








There's a huge difference between cutting funds, which is the crux of the thread and withdrawl..which is so far not in any immediate military strategy.


I agree; but withdrawl is where the public is already heading. Cutting funds off is Congress' only tool for reigning in the President if he won't listen to the national opinion. They don't want to have to use it, but if the national opinion of Bush and Iraq continues to slide, they will use it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:29 pm
So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... That really only leaves a few options. Seems like the cut-and-run option is the one the Dem's (defeatacrats...just heard that on Hannity.) are pulling for. I wonder which Republican will be the next President?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:30 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

In fact, I would judge that the correct course of action in Iraq would be the opposite of whatever is proposed by the NeoCon crowd...


That does seem to be the Democrat's strategy. Their problem is that apart from criticism, they have nothing to offer: no strategy for Iraq, Iran or any of the attendant problems of the growing confrontation between the Islamic world and the West.

They even criticize things that are working well. North Korea is a good example. The U.S. has made it clear to South Korea, Japan , and China that this is primarily a problem of their neighborhood. They have a direct interest in taming the macabre and juvenile government of North Korea and ample reason to fear their collective reactions to more aggression on its part. Fuinally, they have real leverage over each other and North Korea. By wisely stepping back and refusing direct negotiations, we have made them face their own responsibilities and self interest. Democrats appear to advocate undoing all that and sending Madeline Albright back, with useless bribes in hand, for some more ass-kissing. Some strategy!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:31 pm
Re: non-binding resolution
dyslexia wrote:
what a crock of shiit this is. Kerry says "it sends a message" really, to who?
Congress either puts spending controls on Bush's war budget or they don't. Pretty simple.



Kerry is a past master of the "botched message".
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:34 pm
Brand X wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Brand X wrote:
No one is going to dare cut the funds because it will be spun into cutting off support for the troops which are there...even if that isn't the funds which are cut.

The public won't stand for any notion of the sort therefor a politician wouldn't go near it.


You're wrong about that. Give it a few more months of things going bad, and the public will be screaming for withdrawl. In fact, if you look at opinion polls, over half want withdrawl to begin right now.

The problem with those who argue against withdrawl... is that they have such a spectacularly bad track record of predicting what is going to happen in Iraq, that there simply is no good reason to believe them any longer.

Cycloptichorn








There's a huge difference between cutting funds, which is the crux of the thread and withdrawl..which is so far not in any immediate military strategy.
restricting funding may or may not have any effect of withdrawl, Congress restricted funding under LBJ, R Nixon and R Reagan. Restricitn gfunding can only mean that funding may not be sued for attivites specified within the restrictions. (funding Contras for example)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 02:59 pm
McGentrix wrote:
So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... That really only leaves a few options. Seems like the cut-and-run option is the one the Dem's (defeatacrats...just heard that on Hannity.) are pulling for. I wonder which Republican will be the next President?


This is a pretty idiotic attempt at logic . . . why does the refusal to "stay the course" mean that someone should support sending more troops? Refusing to "stay the course" can also entail reducing the number of troops, or beginning a withdrawl. This is pretty damned poor, even by your low standards (or is this what passes for "logic" at Hannity's house?).
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 03:26 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

In fact, I would judge that the correct course of action in Iraq would be the opposite of whatever is proposed by the NeoCon crowd...


That does seem to be the Democrat's strategy. Their problem is that apart from criticism, they have nothing to offer: no strategy for Iraq, Iran or any of the attendant problems of the growing confrontation between the Islamic world and the West.

They even criticize things that are working well. North Korea is a good example. The U.S. has made it clear to South Korea, Japan , and China that this is primarily a problem of their neighborhood. They have a direct interest in taming the macabre and juvenile government of North Korea and ample reason to fear their collective reactions to more aggression on its part. Fuinally, they have real leverage over each other and North Korea. By wisely stepping back and refusing direct negotiations, we have made them face their own responsibilities and self interest. Democrats appear to advocate undoing all that and sending Madeline Albright back, with useless bribes in hand, for some more ass-kissing. Some strategy!


Being one of the only Conservatives on A2K who have ever admitted how bad the war has gotten, I respect your voice, George.

I think that from time to time the Dems have offered strategies and advice on how to handle the Iraq situation, which goes through a quick process by those on the right - Reading - ridiculing - dismissing - pretending that no strategy has ever been offered at all. I can find you many instances showing where Dems have offered alternative opinions about the correct course of action...

When Bush decided to change course in the war - also known as, when his party got smacked in the Nov. elections - he took a few months of planning with generals and the intelligence agencies to come up with his new course of action. Democrats don't have the access to the generals and intelligence agencies that the Executive does, yet they are expected to offer competent and workable plans without any of the assistance that the president enjoys. I find this to be rather unrealistic.

Though I have been criticized for 'never having anything good to say about Bush,' I thought his speech last night was not bad. I disagree with the conclusions that he has come to but his speech laid out the thought processes much clearer than past ones and he delivered it competently if a little flat. Even as someone who opposes his policies, I found the arguments presented to be somewhat compelling in that they represent a far greater acceptance of reality than past speeches by the Prez have. This is a hopeful sign that decisions made from here on out may be more reality-based than ones in the past, which seemed to be more ideologically-based and full of words like 'freedom' and 'hope.'

I am willing to give Petraeus (I know that you righties love his Roman-sounding name) a shot at this counter-strategy before I start ramping up my withdrawl rhetoric. But I don't expect any sort of success, as the counter-insurgency doctorine he calls for specifically asks for more troops than they are going to get, and I have zero trust in the Iraqi army when it comes to going after Shiite militias.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 07:52 am
Setanta wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... That really only leaves a few options. Seems like the cut-and-run option is the one the Dem's (defeatacrats...just heard that on Hannity.) are pulling for. I wonder which Republican will be the next President?


This is a pretty idiotic attempt at logic . . . why does the refusal to "stay the course" mean that someone should support sending more troops? Refusing to "stay the course" can also entail reducing the number of troops, or beginning a withdrawl. This is pretty damned poor, even by your low standards (or is this what passes for "logic" at Hannity's house?).


Try reading what I wrote before writing some idiotic tripe next time.

If the Dem's want to cut and run, it's time for them to come out and say so instead of acting like a bunch of pussies. Whining like a bunch of babies about Bush's plan is disgusting to watch. Either come up with a better plan, or STFU.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 09:20 am
McGentrix wrote:
Setanta wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... That really only leaves a few options. Seems like the cut-and-run option is the one the Dem's (defeatacrats...just heard that on Hannity.) are pulling for. I wonder which Republican will be the next President?


This is a pretty idiotic attempt at logic . . . why does the refusal to "stay the course" mean that someone should support sending more troops? Refusing to "stay the course" can also entail reducing the number of troops, or beginning a withdrawl. This is pretty damned poor, even by your low standards (or is this what passes for "logic" at Hannity's house?).


Try reading what I wrote before writing some idiotic tripe next time.

If the Dem's want to cut and run, it's time for them to come out and say so instead of acting like a bunch of pussies. Whining like a bunch of babies about Bush's plan is disgusting to watch. Either come up with a better plan, or STFU.


We do have a better plan - withdrawing while there's still time.

Nothing like some over-the-top testosterone rhetoric to settle an argument. Here's an argument for you, McG: if you really believe in the Iraq war, maybe you will stop being such a pussy and sign up to fight in it, or STFU.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 09:21 am
McGentrix wrote:
Setanta wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... That really only leaves a few options. Seems like the cut-and-run option is the one the Dem's (defeatacrats...just heard that on Hannity.) are pulling for. I wonder which Republican will be the next President?


This is a pretty idiotic attempt at logic . . . why does the refusal to "stay the course" mean that someone should support sending more troops? Refusing to "stay the course" can also entail reducing the number of troops, or beginning a withdrawl. This is pretty damned poor, even by your low standards (or is this what passes for "logic" at Hannity's house?).


Try reading what I wrote before writing some idiotic tripe next time.

If the Dem's want to cut and run, it's time for them to come out and say so instead of acting like a bunch of pussies. Whining like a bunch of babies about Bush's plan is disgusting to watch. Either come up with a better plan, or STFU.


Let's examine carefully the idiotic tripe you puked up. You wrote: So, basically Congress demands change, but the Dem's are refusing to fund more troops. They complain that they don't want to "stay the course", but don't want more troops... (emphases added)--what contradiction do you allege exists here (your use of "but" implies that the Democrats contradict themselves in asking for change, and refusing to "stay the course," while also not wanting an escalation)? There is an option to "stay the course" which does not involve escalation.

I'll except that you framed your comment in an appallingly inept manner--either way, it was an idiotic contribution.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 09:30 am
The contradiction is that the dems in congress don't have the balls to say they want to cut and run.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 09:48 am
Ah yes--i understood at the outset that you just wanted to dump off some of the bile that's eating away at your guts ever since your Bush-brown-nosing crew got turned out of office. And i'm neither bothered by nor surprised to see that your command of the language is so poor.

Have a nice day, McWhitey.
0 Replies
 
 

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