0
   

Kicked off the bus. The crime?

 
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Jan, 2007 08:28 pm
JTT wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Another thing, how come the driver can get by with speaking English?
This is rediculous.


Yeah, it's a damn shame that these furriners can't even learn how to spell.

Aww, don't be so hard on yourself, you'll learn....eventually.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 08:29 am
What would the flak have been if students were kicked off the bus for not speaking English? If Hispanic children were kicked off for speaking Spanish would you all still feel the same way?

My point in this thread is to point out the hypocrisy of some people on this board. I thought this country was done with segregation. I guess I was wrong.

Don't most of you think that having different buses for these students is the wrong idea? They are supposed to be learning English but they won't learn it very well if they only talk to other students that speak their native tongue.

The fact they were kicked off a bus in the US for speaking English regardless of why is just wrong. Last time I checked we lived in the US where English is the primary language.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:03 am
ebrown_p wrote:
We are all reading into a short sensationalized story... the writer was obviously trying to make this episode mean something, and the facts aren't there.

You don't know how right you are about that. You are about to find out, though.

ebrown_p wrote:
But I have to say I agree with the basic point that I think LoneStarMadam and Baldimo are trying to make.

Egad. You just went off the tracks entirely.

You know, eBrown, you can take this new spirit of comraderie between Tico, BiPolar and others entirely too far. In fact, you just did.

ebrown_p wrote:
Assuming that this bus was taking these Hmong kids (there are quite a few Hmong families who came here legally as refugees and I assume this is a program for them) to the same place that these Anglo kids were suppose to go, then they should be allowed to use this bus.


From Baldimo's original article, taken from a Minnesota news station's website:
Quote:
However, the district points out, that particular bus route serves one of three language academies. The one at Phalen Lake is for Hmong students learning English.
The academies all have separate bus routes to keep its students together.

Now exactly what about the bus now taking the kids to one of three different academies gives you the impression that all buses go to the same place? Yes, it is theoretically possible that all three academies can be housed in one building, but most people would assume that each academy has it's own building, would they not?

As it turns out, two of the three academies-in fact the two which are relevant here-are in separate buildings but within easy walking distance of each other. That will be explained shortly.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:09 am
What a crock! Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:17 am
Baldimo, it is bad enough that you post an article which is misleading in and of itself. As you read through the article, it becomes clear that the first sentences of the article are not even true!

I can't blame you for the article being written so badly that when you get to the end you realize the beginning of the article was saying things that weren't true. However, I certainly can blame you, and do blame you, for sticking to the same stupid things the article said at the beginning, when by the end the article makes it clear the things it said at the beginning were simply not true.

The kids were NOT kicked off for speaking English. Those two kids were no longer allowed on the bus in the first place because the bus was now only allowed to pick up kids from one of three academies, while before it was scheduled to pick up kids from two academies. The kids in question belonged to the academy that the bus no longer was scheduled to pick up.

The academy the kids were going to now had it's own bus which picked the kids up at a different location. The problem is that the school district never told the parents of that change, or the new location her kids would be picked up at. All of this information is from the article you posted, Baldimo. If you read the article you posted yourself, you would know this.

Maybe you ought to enroll yourself in one of those elementary school academies for reading comprehension skills!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:26 am
Quote:
[... ]
The problem, according to Armstrong, was that her 10-year-old twin girls and 8-year-old son speak English. They were told the route had been designated for non-English speakers only. Her complaint made the local airwaves, eventually spread across the Internet and caught the attention of national news networks.

But Armstrong's account is not entirely accurate, says St. Paul Public Schools spokeswoman Dayna Kennedy.

The children, who attend Phalen Lake Elementary, weren't barred from the bus for speaking English, she said. They were barred because it wasn't their bus.

The bus served a route designed to pick up non-native English speakers from around the city, as well as special-education students. The three siblings had been getting on the bus since the start of the school year, but the district's transportation department told the school it would stop picking them up as of Monday.


The family was supposed to receive formal notification of that but didn't, Kennedy said.

"It's our mistake," she said.

As it turns out, when the Armstrong family moved last year, they landed outside of Phalen Lake's attendance area. Armstrong said she was told her kids would have to transfer if they wanted to keep riding a bus, "or I'd have to find my own way to get them to school."

Armstrong said she arrived home Wednesday to find a message from the principal on her answering machine.

The principal "would prefer them to stay there rather than leave, and she would like to work on some kind of resolution," Armstrong said.

A simple solution, she said, would be to let her children keep riding the bus.

"It's so simple, but they want to come with the red tape and everything," she said. "As long as the kids get to school, that should be the main point."

The story drew national interest Wednesday. Fox News Channel, CNN and MSNBC contacted the district, as did local media, Kennedy said. Several said they wouldn't be doing stories after they heard the explanation, Kennedy said.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:35 am
Baldimo wrote:

The fact they were kicked off a bus in the US for speaking English regardless of why is just wrong.


I agree here - see the above quoted report.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:43 am
Am i the only one here who has noticed that they were not "kicked off the bus?"
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:47 am
Setanta wrote:
Am i the only one here who has noticed that they were not "kicked off the bus?"


Rachel Armstrong sent her kids to pick up the bus as usual Monday, but after the driver let the kids on, he told them he would not pick them up again. He even said he wouldn't take them home that afternoon.
Armstrong left work early Tuesday, forced to pick up her kids from Phalen Lake Elementary School. Her twin girls, 10, and her son, 8, were kicked off their regular school bus. They were told by the bus driver the route is for non-English speaking students only.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:55 am
Okay, now it is time for Kelticwizard to straighten everybody out here.

The Phalen Lake Elementary School is located in a district which is largely Asian-principally Hmong. Here is the ethnic breakdown of the school:

............................................................................................
Ethnicity ..........................This School ..................State Average

Asian/Pacific Islander.............. 44%................................. 5%
White, not Hispanic................. 21%.................................. 80%
Black, not Hispanic................. 20%....................................8%
Hispanic................................ 14%................................... 5%
American Indian.....................<1%................................... 2%

From the following website, we get the 2003 article which clears this whole mess up.
Quote:
Phalen Lake Elementary School, St. Paul, Minnesota
The Phalen Lake Elementary School in St. Paul, Minnesota will begin integrating the Hmong Language and culture into its curriculum in April. The move is designed to respond to educational concerns of the district's growing Hmong population and retain students who might otherwise enroll in a nearby charter school with a Hmong-centered program.

One out of three children in the St. Paul public schools is Asian, many of them Hmong. As the Hmong population has grown in size and influence, more Hmong parents have called for opportunities for their children to retain their language, culture and customs. Some of these parents, disenchanted with public school offerings, have enrolled their children in the nearby Hope Academy Charter School, a Hmong-centered program.

At Phalen Lake, 45 percent of the students are Asian. A survey of all Phalen Lake parents found that 85 percent support the new language and culture curriculum.

Plans call for Phalen Lake's 640 students to study either Hmong or Spanish language and culture for 50 minutes of regular class time two days a week. Vocabulary and concepts that students are learning in their other classes will be reinforced and taught in their language classes. The program is being phased in starting this spring, and eventually all students will be able to take the curriculum. [From-Star Tribune] (Jan. 4)


The Hope Academy Charter School is likely the other academy the article speaks of. It almost certainly is either just across the street or right down the block from the Phalen Lake Elementary School, and before this year, the buses picked up the students from both academies.

The Hmong academy is clearly meant only for kids who are totally Hmong, who are probably just arrived a couple of years ago and whose parents don't speak English or have much to do with any non-Hmong person. Phalen Lake Elementary School also has Hmong kids, but these are likely the kids who know English and whose parents have been here awhile and begun to integrate themselves into the mainstream American culture. The school administration just gives the kids some classes in the Hmong culture so their Hmong parents can feel the kids are learning the things that hey learned back in the old country.

This year, they apparently changed bus schedules and the kids from the Hmong academy have their bus, picked up at one place, and the kids from the Phalen Lake Elementary School-including the Hmong kids who went to Phalen Lake Elementary School-now had their own bus, which picks them up from a different place.

All of which is just ducky, except that the school district never notified Rachel Armstrong that her kids would now be picked up by a different bus from the kids going to the Hmong academy.

She and her kids were probably waiting, as they always had, at the same bus stop she always did, and there were no doubt Hmong kids and their parents there as well, as there always had been. When the bus driver stopped to pick up the Hmong kids, to take them to the Hmong academy, Rachel Armstrong was no doubt told by the bus driver that she could no longer pick up the kids. Possibly, the kids were now supposed to go to a different bus stop, and it was probably too late to to there and catch the bus.

At any rate, the bus driver agreed to take her kids this time, but told her that she no longer could. Hopefully the bus driver told her to get in touch with the school administration to get the thing straightened out. We don't know how amicable this conversation between the bus driver and Ms Armstrong was.

Rachel Armstrong's kids were not kicked off the bus for speaking English. They were simply scheduled for a different bus, but the school administration never got word to her. The Hmong kids going to the Hmong academy no doubt were learning English at that school, and no doubt spoke some English words on that bus and the bus driver didn't kick them off.

Thsi incident is NOT a case of kids being kicked off a bus for speaking English!!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 09:56 am
Baldimo wrote:
Her twin girls, 10, and her son, 8, were kicked off their regular school bus. They were told by the bus driver the route is for non-English speaking students only.


You aren't really illiterate, aren't you?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 10:06 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
Her twin girls, 10, and her son, 8, were kicked off their regular school bus. They were told by the bus driver the route is for non-English speaking students only.


You aren't really illiterate, aren't you?


One does wonder, no?

Baldimo, he took them to the school, he did not make them get off the bus. When he told them he would not let them ride the bus again, he was not making them get off the bus before they had reached their destination. This is why so many people have called your article a crock of sh*t. The author is playing as fast and loose with the truth as you apparently intend to do.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 10:13 am
From the above quoted newspaper report:

Quote:
The story drew national interest Wednesday. Fox News Channel, CNN and MSNBC contacted the district, as did local media, Kennedy said. Several said they wouldn't be doing stories after they heard the explanation, Kennedy said.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 11:05 am
Here's what it sounds like to me, which is only slightly different from kelticwizard's take. There is a charter school and a regular elementary school. The charter school is for Hmong children (and presumably anyone else) whose parents want them to learn the Hmong language and culture. The Armstrongs moved out of the regular school district for the elementary school, but were able to ride the charter school bus (which presumably would pick up kids outside of the regular elementary school's district). The district said they were going to start enforcing separate buses to separate schools, and here we are. If they still lived in the district, they could probably continue to take the same bus. Or they could go to the school they are zoned for.

Around here, if you try to attend a school outside of your district you usually get forcibly transferred to the school in your own district. They seem pretty reasonable to me.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 11:07 am
I think they're doing pretty damned well--in many districts, if you wish to attend a school, but do not live in that district, you are obliged to pay tuition.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 11:11 am
Yep. I was at a playground and was talking to a guy who lived right across the demarcation line for our district, which he didn't know when he bought the house (he thought it was in the district, the line's a bit arbitrary). It's his fault that he didn't figure that out, but I still had to wince when he told me how much it would cost (tuition) if he wanted to go to a school in our district. Wow! (Free for us.)
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 11:20 am
Setanta:

I think the reason the school doesn't charge them tuition is that both the school the kids are zoned for, and the school the kids are actually going to, are all part of the St. Paul city school system, which is paid for by all the taxpayers of St. Paul.

Now, if they moved out to the suburbs and went to one town's schools, which are paid for by that town's taxpayers, and lived in a different town, then they would have to pay tuition.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Jan, 2007 11:22 am
sozobe wrote:
Yep. I was at a playground and was talking to a guy who lived right across the demarcation line for our district, which he didn't know when he bought the house (he thought it was in the district, the line's a bit arbitrary). It's his fault that he didn't figure that out, but I still had to wince when he told me how much it would cost (tuition) if he wanted to go to a school in our district. Wow! (Free for us.)


Just curious-did the fellow live in the same town as you, or was the demarcation line just the border between school districts of the same town?
0 Replies
 
 

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