A gravestone carving from 1862

The problem with that is that from what we are told there is no name or dates appearing on the monuments. In our culture its very unusual not to give the dead person's name and dates on their headstone ... if they are known. Secondly, if these were Oddfellow's graves, I would expect that the time window would be larger and the concentration of grave sites would be more scattered.

Concrete doesn't normally deteriorate much over 150 years. The Pantheon in Rome is in pretty good shape after almost two thousand years, and it's concrete. Of course, inferior materials wouldn't be as durable. As someone else has already remarked, I've seen grave stones in the Southwest dating back to the 17th century that are still somewhat readable.

Very interesting.

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I just now emailed the I.O.O.F. in Austin requesting possible information - along with a photo of the stone and it's location. If they answer I'll pass it on.

Also, I found out that burying the dead is part of their duties as Odd Fellows.

More clues to follow....................... :wink:

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The concrete on my sidewalk doesn't appear to last longer than a couple of decades. Granted, it's walked on, and subject to the (increasingly mild) midwestern climate, but the stuff can still go quickly.

The graves being lumped together and unidentified would be consistent with the removal of a number of then-anonymous graves from the grounds of the state mental hospital to the location in question, as was suggested earlier.

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Nice work on the chain links, danon, interesting.

I'm finding a lot of answers on how long concrete lasts (one said 50,000 years but I think they may mean before it disintegrates entirely), but I could believe that it's concrete, especially since it's upright. Would be great to see the top edge for that reason.

More pictures would definitely be appreciated. (Interesting puzzle though, looking forward to having it solved.)

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Still haven't found out much about how long a concrete gravestone could last, but did find this:

Quote:

Small concrete stone 20" high 10" wide, 1 1/2" thick. Small. Footstone:
Henry Harring/Born/July 1., 1909/Died/Jan. 1, 1910/ No flower can drop to soon
... [rest is unreadable]

It's from a tour of a cemetary, written in 1990. While it's just 80 years vs. 138 years, it sounds like a similar sort of legibility (and it did last 80 years...)

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I have no clue what it is but am now interested in finding out.

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Asherman wrote:

Fishin has supplied the best theory yet. However, there is a slight problem. Who put up the cash to have stone markers carved for paupers?

I suggest that the weathering on the grave stones be compared with nearby clearly dated stones to see if the weathering is consistent with that 10 year window.
quote]

The state cemetery uses small concrete or small metal slabs to mark entry date of the deceased, and day of death. Their patient number is used in place of a name. Usually no more information is freely offered and you have to be family to obtain personal records that will contain actual age, date of birth , etc. Though, I do not know if this procedure is being used to date? Or if it was something that was done in earlier times? Or if it was something that only the State of Texas hospital used.

I tried to go out to Oakwood today, but there were 2 funerals going on. So, just to be respectful, I did not trounce around with my camera.

But, I did look around a bit more just to check my own memory of the spot.
I have been going to this graveyard weekly, and sometimes as often as 3 times a week for almost a year.
I think it is close to 10 acres and makes for a wonderful, quiet , brisk walking place.

This spot in question IS in the pauper area.
But, just like poor neighborhoods break down in the demographics, there is the 'really poor' area, and the "middle class' area.
They are in the middle class section. The section where people spent , what I would think to be, a reasonable amount of money on the headstones. ( under 500.00 )

Unlike the- 120,000.00 $ and up- headstones in the center of the graveyard. Or the pieces of wood with a knife carving on the edges of the grave yard.

These headstones, are small, but not THAT small.

If you take 2 Websters dictionaries, stand them on top of each other like a wall, that is about how high they are. I would use that for an example of how wide they are too. Then I would guess are about 7 thick. Maybe a bit thicker, but with out a ruler, that is my guess.

The stones around them are near perfect.( Perfect, as in- weathered as they should be for their age ) But they are more expensive , and marble. These are not.
These are a course stone, that has a marbled pattern , but are not marble. That would explain why they have more weather damage then the others. And why I also would think they may be older then the 1862. But, for all I know, it could be just because it is a cheaper stone then what was generally used, and the age is right on target.

They are all the same size, and shape.
I do see one that , when I look a bit closer, seems to show a small scratching on the back. As if someone was trying to add more information. But they did not for what ever reason.

There was noone in the office today. I know there are at least 3 people who work there on a regular basis. What I want to do is ask another worker and see if the stories match.

I do know where the state patients are in the graveyard, and they are not near this oddity. At least.. i think.. I know where they are.

Im questioning myself now as I have always seen these headstones before, and never thought to look closer until now.
On top of that, this graveyards attendance record is nearing 25,000 people. No matter how regular I am, I will never know everything.

I do know that I have some other pictures taken somewhere in my collection. I will dig around and see if I have captured the images of these graves anywhere else. I doubt it.. but .. you never know.

Oh.. where would I find block charcoal?

Could I just use kids colored chalk with some white thin paper?

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For making rubbings of the stones, you should probably check your local Art Supply store, or maybe a well-stocked hobby store. The oblique lighting suggested is also worth trying.

If the markers are of stone, rather than cast concrete, we are back to the problem of costly marking of pauper's graves. The occupants might not have been paupers, but whose identity was unknown. Reinternment of bodies from some other location might explain the loss of idenity. The similarity of the markers indicates that the burials were supervised by some organization. If not the State, then who? Fifteen plus graves clustered together suggests a narrow time window, and the weathering argues for at least a 150+ years en situ. Marble is a soft stone and tends to wear away faster than granit, and as it ages marble will appear more rough and "gravely" than a newly polished slab of stone. A local rock hound might be able to estimate the time elapsed since the stone was carved.

Old newspapers and Historical Society records are good places to look. How long has the cemetary existed? That might provide a resonaby reliable "oldest" possible date, though mid-19th century is still the hot zone.

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I saw the paupers thing too, but like Ash, immediately thought, "who would pay for fancy stones for paupers?" On further thought, though; if indeed they were moved, it could be they had a budget allocation for doing so and somebody's brother-in-law was in the business of making stones... it's not as if logic is necessarily involved in deciding how to spend the public $$$.

Parados's link provided this Masonic seal:

http://www.kena.org/hirams/Pictures/Masonic/Masonic%20Seals/RAMMaine_small.jpg

Notice that it isn't filled in, like most of Texas Stars are, has the double ring and a rectangular box in the middle of the Star. The site reports showing only a fraction of all the seals, so our mystery could very well be an example of one.

Interesting angle with the I.O.O.F.... I hadn't heard of them before.

I wonder if JPinMilwaukee could manipulate the picture to reveal more details?

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After a very annoying web search, i have discovered that there is a Rebekah Lodge #138 in Alvin, Tejas . . . the Rebekahs are the female auxiliary of the Odd Fellows. Is Alvin, Tejas near you?

No joy on the Austin Lodge of the IOOF, which is #23.

Kudos to whoever spotted the IOOF connection--once again, i can't open earlier pages of this thread, so i can't give credit where it is due.

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Asherman wrote:

How long has the cemetary existed? .

That is actually under a large amount of debate.

But, my personal conclusion is -

Mrs Mary Murphy of 1788
is the first marked resident.
( sorry for the shabby photograph)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4196/dsc0317ov2.jpg

Most people want to say it was established around 1850.

This might mean that it was just beginning to be recognized as an official CEMETERY in 1850 .
But, I have found Mrs Murphy's grave to be the oldest one.
Her grave covering is tin.
It is -Fabulous-.
And of that as well , I will take some pictures of too.

Tomorrow morning, I work at 930, but am free starting at 730 am.

So , afternoon-ish, I should have more pictures, possibly a rubbing and depending on who is in the office, more information.

The sad part of the website and public information about this gravesite is that it was done by someone like me. A volunteer who mapped out the graveyard for the Austin Geneological society.

Some families are still here in Austin, and a few are still using the grave yard today. But they mostly only know about their family plot. And that is all.
Some of the information on the websites about Oakwood, I can prove wrong with my camera. Since I am on the committee, I may chose this one as my next project just to correct some of the things I see wrong, and learn even more about it.

but, i will stop rambling now. Smile

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Your doing of fine job of reporting, and we all owe you a debt of gratitude for bring us such an intresting puzzle to play with.

A marked grave of an Anglo woman from 1788 in Austin? Now there certainly is a story in that. Who was she, and how did she end up dying in what at the time was a Mexican backwater where the Commanche might appear at any time? She must have been a person of some note to have rated a grave memorial that has lasted 219 years. There couldn't have been many Anglos of any shape, size or sex running around the heart of Texas in 1788. Mary Murphy is a pretty common name, but she must have been an uncommon woman.

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One last thing about the star design. I don't know if it's symbolic - but, the way the star is laid out is really unusual. Here is a quick and dirty drawing I made showing how the star is put together.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/738/tombstar02an6.jpg

That's really interesting and a very intricate design.

And, Alvin, TX is just south of Houston. A long wagon ride, but, probably not unheard of for a family member.

Setanta, that's very interesting re. the Ladies Aux No. 138.

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And, Alvin, TX is just south of Houston. A long wagon ride, but, probably not unheard of for a family member.

Setanta, that's very interesting re. the Ladies Aux No. 138. Could quite easily be a connection.

I haven't heard from the Austin I.O.O.F yet.

Maybe shewolf could give them a call - it's a local number for her.
(512) 459-0864

------------
Please disregard the dubs above - really having a hard time with my land line editing posts.

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Houston to Austin is a long damned ride--i rather doubt if the information i found is of any use in this case, unless the Rebekahs paid for the burial.

I do think a fraternal lodge of some kind is the way to go--and i still wonder if 1862 is a correct date; after all, she was told that that area of the graveyard dated from roughly 1862.

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Btw: "Austin's City of the Dead has no master plan." Austin Chronicle: City of the Death

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I could imagine that this book ...

... has some interesting infos - at least, several sources quote from it.

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Apparently, the Odd Fellows have as their mission three things = Visit the sick, Relieve the distressed, Bury and dead and Educate the orphan.

This from their site =
"Odd Fellows have their roots as one of the first fraternities dating from English antiquity to be comprised of working people....people who were not rich, not royalty, and whose very lives depended on each other should one of their members die, be disabled or lose his job. This was in an age when workers comp and unemployment did not exist. Being out of work even temporarily them could have meant your family was not only going to go hungry........they were going to starve to death. If a family member died in those times, the funeral could easily wipe out the family financially, so the IOOF developed a strong practice of paying for the funeral of any member whose family could not afford one. Hence our mandate to "bury the dead" as well as "visit the sick". "

So, they do pay for certain burials.

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danon5 wrote:

I looked at the image using Adobe and saw that the shape of the star is unusual. I cleaned it up and "drew some of the lines back in so the bottom image is the best I could do from my imagination using the photo. Also, the image in the center of the star could quite possibly be three links of chain - typical of the Odd Fellows. The IOOF started in 1815 so could easily have been in Austin.

This sure brought back all kinds of memories of the Odd Fellows and Rebekahs in Eastern Ontario. Thanks!

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Waterloo, Tx was founded in 1835 on ground that had previously been a vacant area dominated by the Comanche. In 1837, it was renamed Austin, and designated the Capitol of Texas. The first census in 1840 reported a population of only 850, but that number grew to 4,400 by 1870 and 11,000 in 1880. The Oakwood cemetery is the oldest, and probably was founded between 1840 and 1850. It is possible that the area was used for a cemetery prior to its "official" founding.

The grave site of Mary Murphy dated 1788 is certainly an anomaly. How did a person who died in 1788 get into a cemetery that didn't even exist until 60 years after her death?

The oldest newspaper I could find was an issue of the "Southern Intelligencer" in 1858. There is also a single copy of the Austin Herald in the Chicago library collection dated 1876. Copies of any Texas newspapers prior to the Civil War are exceedingly rare, and copies of papers from Austin up until the 20th century are just plain rare and difficult to find. I now doubt that any really useful clues will be found in old newspaper searches.

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A gravestone carving from 1862

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