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A gravestone carving from 1862

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 12:04 am
Interestingly, if we are talking Free Masons... we are also talking Pagan so Wicci is still not so far fetched. Although Wicci appears to have been largely dissolved during the period; it's equally possible they simply went underground, not unlike the Masons have always behaved (after the Witch burning days perhaps). Could it be there's no names so as not to stigmatize the surviving members of the family?

Also, just another clue I noticed; the Left side appears to contain the letter A and the Right side the letter U... which could match 2 Earth elements I saw on one of the Pagan pages I hit... and as Masonic symbols it they could be a partial key to mean damn near anything. I was unable to search more effectively with their inclusion.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 12:26 am
Reading along with interest. I enjoy so much when a 'problem' is 'stormed' on a2k this way.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 12:33 am
But despite our best research efforts the question has not been answered -- or possibly it has. We need more information.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 02:34 am
Usually - at least under similar circumstances (= a bit older :wink: ) here - I would imagine that some local history society had published a bit about that.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 07:09 am
(trying to lure one of A2K's Texas history experts over here)



on rubbings - a couple of cemetery-related sites I linked toward the beginning of the thread provided some information on protocols for taking rubbings (not just technique, but respect-related protocol)
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danon5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 07:57 am
Morn'n ehBeth, This is all very mysterious & interesting.

The small image in the center of the star could also be two chain links - which is symbolic of another fraternity which I can't think of now - but, will research. The distinct "A" could precede "ustin" and a second word describing a fraternal order. The number does appear to be No. 138 - is there a fraternal order in Austin with that number? Or, did one exist in the past but is no longer there?

Will try to find out and report back.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 07:58 am
I don't think it is masonic although they did exist in Texas in that time frame.

http://www.geocities.com/corkyscorner/texashis.htm

The Austin lodge was #12.

A resource of Masonic seals is found here. Nothing really matches

http://www.kena.org/hirams/Pictures/Masonic/Masonic%20Seals/
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 08:02 am
I just find it odd that the markers have no name or date on them.

Are they a second marker perhaps, added to designate whatever the symbol will turn out to mean?
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 08:10 am
danon,

With the chain you might be thinking of the Order of Odd Fellows but they use 3 links.

I found this list of all known fraternal organizations that issued exonumia (buttons, tokens, ribbons, etc)
http://www.exonumia.com/art/society.htm
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 08:23 am
Here is something local to work with Shewolf: As Set mentioned, it would be highly unlikely for these to be military grave markers and despite the number of comments posted I don't think they are Masonic markers either (They generally don't bury people with anonymous markers.).

However, in May 1861 the Texas State Lunatic Asylum was opened in Austin. The name was later changed to The Austin State Hospital. There is an Austin State Hospital Cemetery and according to the linked articles below only about 1/3rd of the patients that died in the facilitiy were buried in the hospital cemetery, The rest were buried in other local cemeteries.
The current cemetery is also not the original. The original was to small and those bodies were removed and relocated to the current site.

According to the 2nd article there is a group that is looking into the history of the hospital and they may be a very good local resource in answering your questions. Note that in there they mention that almost all graves were/are unmarked but at one time had a simple wooden markers with only the patient numbers on them. If the numbers are all different on your headstones then I think what you have is patient numbers. "All ASH Cemetery headstones made since 1998 have included a name, date of birth, and date of death. For more than 60 years prior, graves had been marked only with a 4-inch-by-12-inch numbered slab..."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/2670/COLUMN-103.htm

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A272559
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 08:48 am
Maybe more evidence???

Shewolf, I just looked at the "Oakwood 2" link you provided. Within the Cemetery database there are a number of "Unknown" people buried who's cause of death is listed as "actute mania" and the attending physician is listed as "R. S. Graves". They all seem to be buried in what is referred to as the "Pauper ground" - a section of the cemetery. If you can talk to the people at the cemetery again, inquire if that is the section you found the headstones in.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 08:53 am
bm
(I am truly fascinated)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 09:00 am
Good stuff, fishin'!
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 11:58 am
Fishin has supplied the best theory yet. However, there is a slight problem. Who put up the cash to have stone markers carved for paupers? His source talks about small wooden staves, and yet the markers for our problem are stone and appear to be relatively large. Since the community must pay for the burial of the unknown corpse without family or money, what's the point of spending tax dollars for folks who aren't likely to vote in the next election?

This, it seems to me, is the central problem that makes these grave markers so interesting. They apparently never had names or dates carved upon them, yet someone thought enough of the dead to more permanently mark their last resting place.

I never believed that these graves are military, Rangers, or Masonic for various reasons that are pretty evident on their face. Fishin's approach seems a good one, but we come back to that problem of who and why would a pauper be given an expensive headstone. The clustering on the grave site, along with the identical stones, supports a set of burials that were reasonably close in time.

We are assuming that all of these 15, or so, graves date from within a few years of one another by the uniform weathering. Say within one decade from first to last. That gives us a window of 1857 to 1867, if the caretaker's 1862 understanding is correct. I suggest that the weathering on the grave stones be compared with nearby clearly dated stones to see if the weathering is consistent with that 10 year window.

If we are pretty sure that the graves actually date from 1857 to 1867, when Austin was still a relatively small town, there should be clues in the local newspaper, and the local Historical Society may already have the answer to our little mystery. There was a moment that I thought these graves might have been anonymous Texas heros reburied from one of the conflicts of Texas Independence, but that still seems to be quite a stretch.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 12:08 pm
I've passed on my way our university's library this afternoon ...

Obviously, headstones (and tombs) from 12 cemetaries were assembled at Oakwood Cemetary, more than 200 (one source) to less than 500 (another source) tombs altogether .... I found out.

There's a lot of stuff written about this in various historical papers/magazines - although none with a summary (I could get), and since it takes some time and costs some money ....

I suppose, a research from the USA will be much easier.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 12:16 pm
Asherman wrote:
However, there is a slight problem. Who put up the cash to have stone markers carved for paupers? His source talks about small wooden staves, and yet the markers for our problem are stone and appear to be relatively large. Since the community must pay for the burial of the unknown corpse without family or money, what's the point of spending tax dollars for folks who aren't likely to vote in the next election?


In one of the 2 articles I linked they mention that the Hospital was pretty much a self-sufficent mini-city unto itself that even had it's own blacksmith's shop. They also mention that they made their own grave markers from cement. I think the 2nd link even has pics of some of the letter/number pieces used to cast the markers. The wooden markers were used for bodies that were moved.

I can't tell from the pics if the markers are stone or cement though. It is also hard to judge their size from the pics.
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 01:03 pm
Molded cement might well have been cheap enough for use with pauper graves. If the grave markers are concrete rather than the stone we've been assuming, then you might well have solved the mystery.

Now we'll need to await further reports from the scene.

You've done real good Fishin ... very workman-like.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 01:04 pm
I think Fishin' is on to something. Markers carved from local field stone in many places--including New England where some burials were done well over 300 years ago--are more legible than the stone which Wolfwoman has photographed. However, if the "stone" were actually poured concrete, it could well weather much faster than field stone. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but poured concrete might well become illegible relative rapidly in comparison to carved stone.
0 Replies
 
danon5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 01:26 pm
You are both right. Also, a quick check to see if the 'stones' are molded would be to examine them to see if the shapes are all the same.

I looked at the image using Adobe and saw that the shape of the star is unusual. I cleaned it up and "drew some of the lines back in so the bottom image is the best I could do from my imagination using the photo. Also, the image in the center of the star could quite possibly be three links of chain - typical of the Odd Fellows. The IOOF started in 1815 so could easily have been in Austin.

Only a guess based upon the shadows in the photo.
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2271/tombstardj7.jpg

Also, if the image were viewed in dim light - twilight - with a flashlight from the side - the image could be viewed better, maybe. Very Happy
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jan, 2007 01:42 pm
i think danon might be on to something with the IOOF

more info here International Order of Odd Fellows
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