Creationism is false

Pte Darkness, First of all, wecome to a2k. I was attracted to your thread, because of the title you assigned to it. Although I have just skimmed over your first post, I see you have done your homework well, and presented both sides of the issue.

I'm just bookmarking for now, but will return often to read the opinions posted to your thread.

BTW, thanks.

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Eorl wrote:

real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:
As for alternatives to evo/creation....how about alien seeding of the planet? The point is, we are talking about creation. Let's stick to that. We have enough threads on evolution already, and as you are well aware, falsifying evolution does not validate creation one bit.

Alien seeding of the planet is not an alternative to evolution or creation. It is just a variation of one of them, depending on if you think the aliens were created, or evolved from simpler organisms which sprang to life from dead matter.

Does this mean you are arguing to defend all creation myths, rather than the Christian one, which is just one of many?

Did you miss my point?

Either the aliens in your example were created, or they evolved from lower life forms which in turn sprang to life from dead chemicals.

You have not provided even 1 alternative to creation/evolution, just variations on a theme.

Yet you claimed there are 'plenty of them'.

I would really like to hear some of them. Or did you really mean to say that there are many variants of either the basic creation or basic evolutionary themes, but no real alternatives?

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Eorl wrote:

real life wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Creationism, as literally described in most bibles, can easily be proved false

Do so.

Let's not bother. Your mind-warping denial of simple facts won't achieve anything constructive.

Oh, but let's bother.

That's a whopper of a claim you've made, and I am sure you cannot substantiate it, but would love to see you try.

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Eorl wrote:

Creationism, as literally described in most bibles, can easily be proved false

You mean, "excluding the possibility of magic" of course. Right?

Unfortunately, if a person's world view includes the possibility of magic, then nothing can be proven (or dis-proven), even beyond a reasonable doubt.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Creationism, as literally described in most bibles, can easily be proved false

You mean, "excluding the possibility of magic" of course. Right?

Unfortunately, if a person's world view includes the possibility of magic, then nothing can be proven (or dis-proven), even beyond a reasonable doubt.

Well, Ros, when Eorl says 'as described in the Bible' , that doesn't seem to exclude supernatural means, does it?

Are you saying he cannot prove creationism to be false? He thinks he can easily do so.

You aren't trying to discourage him, are you?

------------------------------------------

On the evolutionary side, isn't it also true that when evolutionists use statements like:

'We don't know how evolution happened, we just know that it DID happen.'

that they are effectively setting up evolution as unfalsifiable?

Come what may, the goal of making the information 'fit' into evolution, and therefore interpreting it ONLY in that way, remains constant doesn't it?

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real life wrote:

'We don't know how evolution happened, we just know that it DID happen.'

that they are effectively setting up evolution as unfalsifiable?

Someone would have to say that first. You assume that Biologists are just guessing with no direction. Biologists/zoologists don't use the magic method employed by ID'ers.

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It's interesting how creationist first create a god, then make claims that that god created everything. Magic.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

It's interesting how creationist first create a god, then make claims that that god created everything. Magic.

Materialists first create matter, then claim that matter assembled itself into everything, and springing to life of it's own accord. Sounds rather magical also, doesn't it?

If you ask 'where did God come from?' then shouldn't you also ask yourself 'where did matter come from?'

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A question to the creationists: "How did GOD create the universe and design everything alive?"

HOW!

I want only creationists to reply.

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real life wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
Eorl wrote:
Creationism, as literally described in most bibles, can easily be proved false

You mean, "excluding the possibility of magic" of course. Right?

Unfortunately, if a person's world view includes the possibility of magic, then nothing can be proven (or dis-proven), even beyond a reasonable doubt.

Well, Ros, when Eorl says 'as described in the Bible' , that doesn't seem to exclude supernatural means, does it?

Are you saying he cannot prove creationism to be false? He thinks he can easily do so.

You aren't trying to discourage him, are you?

Heaven forbid Wink

I was just making a point of clarity.

By all means... let the games begin

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real wrote: Materialists first create matter, then claim that matter assembled itself into everything, and springing to life of it's own accord. Sounds rather magical also, doesn't it?

There are more and more evidence today to support that simple fact; there's nothing in support of "creationism" except one book called the bible. Considering the simple fact that many of the passages in the bible has been found to be in error, its credibility is more in question than is evolutionary theory. Scientists have recently claimed that water was found on Mars - the essential ingredient for life.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Creationism, as literally described in most bibles, can easily be proved false

You mean, "excluding the possibility of magic" of course. Right?

Unfortunately, if a person's world view includes the possibility of magic, then nothing can be proven (or dis-proven), even beyond a reasonable doubt.

Which is exactly why it's pointless. With magic, all things are possible and equally likely, including Last Thursdayism.

By proof, I meant the real-world kind. The kind that accepts you can't fit today's entire biodiversity on a boat, no matter how many cubits you've got to play with.

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Eorl wrote:

Which is exactly why it's pointless. With magic, all things are possible and equally likely, including Last Thursdayism.

By proof, I meant the real-world kind. The kind that accepts you can't fit today's entire biodiversity on a boat, no matter how many cubits you've got to play with.

I expected as much. Just wanted to be sure.

Within a scientific framework (real-world as you put it), Creationism IS false and can never be otherwise. Creationism by means of *poof* is an undefined quantity within science.

Within a magical framework, everything is possible. So there's no sense wasting time trying to figure anything out. It's a brain-dead approach to life.

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We may see them as "brain dead," but they are still very dangerous to the rest of society when they continue to push laws based on those "outdated" beliefs of god and creationism.

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Even John McCain has no shame of using Roe vs Wade to pursue the presidency.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

We may see them as "brain dead," but they are still very dangerous to the rest of society when they continue to push laws based on those "outdated" beliefs of god and creationism.

It's a brain-dead philosophy. That doesn't mean those people aren't thinking, they have simply chose a methodology which doesn't grade them on accuracy.

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I'm not sure where the difference lies between brain dead philosophy and brain dead, but I'll relent to your definition.

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rosborne979 wrote:

Eorl wrote:
Which is exactly why it's pointless. With magic, all things are possible and equally likely, including Last Thursdayism.

By proof, I meant the real-world kind. The kind that accepts you can't fit today's entire biodiversity on a boat, no matter how many cubits you've got to play with.

I expected as much. Just wanted to be sure.

Within a scientific framework (real-world as you put it), Creationism IS false and can never be otherwise. Creationism by means of *poof* is an undefined quantity within science.

Within a magical framework, everything is possible. So there's no sense wasting time trying to figure anything out. It's a brain-dead approach to life.

Great circular argument, ros.

'Within a strictly natural framework, the supernatural cannot be included.' Laughing

That's almost as good as one of your previous riffs,

'Based on our current understanding, we don't understand how it could be any other way.'

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Braindead is as braindead does - if there were a god, it would deserve thanks for seeing to it that ID-iots are among the very best at embarrassing their proposition and themselves.

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real life wrote:

Great circular argument, ros.

'Within a strictly natural framework, the supernatural cannot be included.'

You must think the dictionary is a book of circular arguments.

real life wrote:

That's almost as good as one of your previous riffs,

'Based on our current understanding, we don't understand how it could be any other way.'

Noce job of mis-quoting there buddy (as usual).

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Creationism is false

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