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UCSD Study/ Pot Smoking Causes No Permanent Damage

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2003 07:27 pm
Funny thing about some of the drugs being used in America...

I've never seen a pot smoker pick a fight while stoned -- but I'll bet I've seen several hundred beer drinkers pick fights while drunk.

I've never heard a pot smoker -- no matter how steady a smoker he/she is -- say anything like: "Don't say a word to me until I've had my morning joint." But I've heard several hundred coffee drinkers say words to that effect.

I've never seen a pot smoker -- no matter how steady a smoker -- shake or tremble because it was not convenient to smoke a bone, but everyone here has probably been in contact with a tobacco user who goddam near falls apart if he/she cannot indulge.

Nearly as I can tell -- coffee, alcohol and tobacco are all much more addictive -- and impact on users much more severely than pot does.

Yet because of all these idiotic laws, pot - which has the intrinsic value of grass clippings, sells on the street for between $300 and $400 per ounce. And although it is almost impossible to connect for pot these days - heroin, cocaine, and designer drugs are almost universally available.

Go figure!
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farmerman
 
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Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2003 07:33 pm
frank-your beautiful man. No really, I mean it. WOOOA my hands gettin real weird, and big. I cant feel my hand, but its typing all by itself.

I saw in an agricultural publication that you can cross your Sansimilla with your tomato bush and produce a really tasty sanwich.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2003 10:17 pm
I can try to get you some cites, Patio - when I remember.

Of course, another possibility re THC and psychosis is that people are self-medicating for the early symptoms during prodrome...
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 09:55 am
Quote:
I've never heard a pot smoker -- no matter how steady a smoker he/she is -- say anything like: "Don't say a word to me until I've had my morning joint." But I've heard several hundred coffee drinkers say words to that effect.

I've never seen a pot smoker -- no matter how steady a smoker -- shake or tremble because it was not convenient to smoke a bone, but everyone here has probably been in contact with a tobacco user who goddam near falls apart if he/she cannot indulge.


Hmmm, I have, actually, but definitely not to the same degree or on the same scale. But I spend much of my early life among chronic users, many of them (despite the propaganda about "gateway" drugs) had transferred their dependence on harder drugs (such as meth and alcohol) to pot, and, while not getting their lives together, had improved them. An addictive personality is an addictive personality...

Quote:
Of course, another possibility re THC and psychosis is that people are self-medicating for the early symptoms during prodrome...


Possible, but I'm still intrigued by the question, because I don't think it would be the best choice for self-medication. Too introspective, to probative (for me, anyway -- I'm kind of weird: I don't really get the munchies, either) -- I have had a couple of instances where pot aggravated already negative thought patterns, and learned to avoid it when I was already feeling weird and/or depressed and/or paranoid.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:02 am
farmerman wrote:
frank-your beautiful man. No really, I mean it. WOOOA my hands gettin real weird, and big. I cant feel my hand, but its typing all by itself.

I saw in an agricultural publication that you can cross your Sansimilla with your tomato bush and produce a really tasty sanwich.



Don't I wish!!!

I love tomatoes -- and...well, perhaps I'd better leave it at "I love tomatoes."
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:06 am
Anybody see the Simpson's "Tomacco" episode? Yep, that's a good one.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:07 am
patiodog wrote:
An addictive personality is an addictive personality...


That is for certain, Dog. Thanks for mentioning it. It is unfortunate that there are people who can take something that can be a delight when used reasonably and intelligently -- and screw it up by abusing it.

But, as I am sure you realize, that kind of person will never be stopped by laws against any one substance that has the potential for abuse.

The drug war is a farce.

NOTE: The generals in the drug war are people who tell us they've never used drugs. Hummm...I wonder if the country would feel safe if our military generals claimed they've never fired a gun or manned a foxhole?
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:09 am
You mean like our Commanders-in-Chief over the past few decades? (Not that I agree with this particular line of reasoning, necessarily, but it seems a logical next step.)
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:12 am
And certainly (the same old drumbeat) prohibition has little effect on availability, particularly to the people the powers-that-be claim to be most intent on protecting. When I was in high school I could obtain, within a day, pretty much any drug I wanted to, and I lived in a fairly small town. Alcohol, on the other hand, was something of a rare treat. I'd tried opium before I'd tried gin.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 10:12 am
(God, what a parody I am!)
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wenchilina
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 11:25 am
dlowan wrote:

The party drugs are the ones that worry me - I went to a Drug and Alcohol Service seminar the other day and they are saying the stuff on effects on the brain of drugs like ecstasy is looking bad - of course, it is an area so fraught with politics and hysteria, that you have to be careful, and, of course, I didn't write down the cites - cos I never do - but it sure spooked me. I understand the combination of ecstasy and THC (used by some for coming down) is looking especially bad.
quote]

Anything coming out of Ricaurte's arse is about as valid as the biotech bitch Stott's rhetoric. Quite cimply, it's not even worth reading but the gov't and anti-drug groups pay him enough to sop it up.

There is much potential in MDMA, but that is something someone who has never experienced it outside its common setting wouldn't know. It's really a multi-purpose drug... Shulgin called it "penicillin for the soul"...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 03:50 pm
Who the smeg is Ricaurte? Never heard of it, nor Stott.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 04:58 pm
dlowan wrote:
The party drugs are the ones that worry me - I went to a Drug and Alcohol Service seminar the other day and they are saying the stuff on effects on the brain of drugs like ecstasy is looking bad


Without regard to whether designer drugs are bad or not -- a point should be made here.

One of the problems with crying "wolf" too often, is that it often leads to unintended consequences.

Consider this:

If you tell young people that pot and heroin or cocaine are equally dangerous -- and the young people have tried pot, one of two things can happen...

...one, they can say, "Whoa, I never thought about that. Yeah, I'd better stop smoking pot immediately"...

...or two, "Wow, if that's the way things are -- no big deal. I know I can handle pot with no trouble -- so I might as well give heroin and cocaine a try."


Which do you suppose is the result most often???
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 05:02 pm
Tuning the babbling out altogether, and a lingering distrust of authority as they turn out to be at least half-wrong.
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wenchilina
 
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Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:00 pm
dlowan wrote:
Who the smeg is Ricaurte? Never heard of it, nor Stott.


He is the idiot who publishes most of these things (MDMA = devil) is funded by NIDA, and the easiest way to get funding (i.e. lots of $$$$) is to publish anything that even remotely 'proves' that drugs are bad, m'kay.

He has has over a dozen papers published using the exact same cohort of people that he tested a couple of times, calling them mdma users, when in fact they are a group of uneducated polydrug users. He compares their cognitive functioning with a control group that is educated and uses no drugs, finds a minor difference (explained easily by any other difference between the groups), and takes a giant leap to explain that the difference is from mdma.

End result: He gets published, and gets more funding to do the same thing.

I don't know how he even sleeps at night. What he does is bordering on fraud. At the very least, it is bad science. The study published by Ricaurte in Science has nothing to do with typical human patterns of consumption of the drug. First, the primates used were injected--3 times(!!!!!)-- with MDMA: Ricaurte himself showed (Brain Research 1988 Apr 12;446(1):165-8) that injection is 2 to 3 times more neurotoxic than oral dosing. Furthermore, Ricaurte cited in Neuropsychopharmacology (Vollenweider et al (1999 Oct;21 (4):598-600)) notes that squirrel monkeys dosed with MDMA orally every two weeks for four months showed no evidence of reduced neuronal activity. The credibility of the Ricaurte et al. team is at stake when the number of animals they say died from the doses of MDMA administered declines over time (LOL).

Fearmongering and exaggeration of the dangers of ecstasy is perhaps the way to get funding (such as Ricaurte's funding from NIDA), but in the long term, it creates a public health problem insofar as effective harm reduction is concerned, since the cornerstone of effective harm reduction is users receiving accurate information from a credible source.

Phillip Stott is the biotech bitch and ferverent christian paid to say global warming isn't happening and that biotech is humanity's savior. Even though he has little science background.

They'll give anyone the title 'doctor'. Rolling Eyes
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 08:47 pm
LOL! Frank - that is the very reason why our drug and alcohol agency, at least in this state, is extremely reluctant to promulgate dicey stuff. As I said above, they are in some conflict with mental health services, who want them to push more strongly the dangers of psychosis for THC users, while they are very reluctant to do so, fearing the dangers are exaggerated and not wanting to lose credibility around well substantiated risk.

Our drug agency policies differ greatly, I suspect, from government programs in the USA - here, the emphasis is on harm minimisation, and very accurate info, NOT on abstinence. In half of geographical Australia possession of reasonable (ie not trafficable) amounts of marijuana is treated like a traffic infringement, if it is prosecuted at all - you would have the cops bothering you about something else, and stroppy to boot, before you would be given an on the spot fine notice for dope. In my state, you can grow up to three plants for personal use, before you start being chargerd with anything serious.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 08:48 pm
I shall look up these people, Wenchilina - they are nonentities in my country.
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wenchilina
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 09:20 pm
dlowan wrote:
I shall look up these people, Wenchilina - they are nonentities in my country.


would you mind providing a study link, please in re: thc inducing psychosis Smile
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 02:23 am
I will have to get the guff from our team psychiatrist - which means I have to

a. see her

b. not have more pressing things to discuss

I am happy to do so as soon as I can - but, given the current pressure, it may take a week or more.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 10:13 am
Quote:
Our drug agency policies differ greatly, I suspect, from government programs in the USA - here, the emphasis is on harm minimisation, and very accurate info, NOT on abstinence.


Well, this would explain all the Aussies I met and enjoyed in California...
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