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Is Capital Punishment a Solution?

 
 
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 04:40 am
Is Capital Punishment a Solution?

"Capital punishment, the death sentence, is a frequent topic of discussion. Judges, psychiatrists and sociologists give us the statistics and talk about their observations and conclusions on radio and television programmes, and public opinion remains divided. Some think that the worst criminals should be executed so as to deter those who are tempted to imitate them; others retort that the fear of death has never deterred a criminal and, above all, that no human being has the right to decide the death of another. And so the debate goes on endlessly. Unfortunately, even the greatest authorities have no very clear ideas on the question, because their understanding of the structure of the universe and of human beings does not include the spiritual dimension.

Obviously, if you execute a criminal, society will be rid of him on the physical plane. Yes, but what people fail to realize is that he is still alive on the subtle planes, and on those planes his desire for destruction and revenge is as strong as ever. The desires of a criminal are not killed by the death of his physical body, because they don't belong to the physical plane. Once he is dead, therefore, a criminal becomes active on the astral and lower mental planes and the evil is amplified. His influence seeps into the minds and hearts of all those on earth whose criminal tendencies create an affinity with him, and through them he attempts to continue his evil work. In fact, he has even more scope after death for he is no longer limited by his physical body and can act through many different people. If people advocate capital punishment as a solution to the problem of crime, therefore, it is because they don't know that a criminal's spirit continues to be active after his death.

The same phenomenon occurs, of course, when a prophet or a great spiritual Master is assassinated: his ideas spread even more rapidly. In fact, this is why, when the criticism of an outspoken religious or political figure becomes an embarrassment to a government, and those in power are tempted to eliminate him, they know that they have to be very careful about how they do it. To make a martyr of a popular hero only serves to exacerbate the fury of his followers and make the position of his executioners even more precarious. They know that when you kill a man you don't kill his ideology, for others take it up and it becomes more vigorous than ever. You will say: "But that is only because his partisans or disciples are infuriated at the death of their leader and are fired with greater enthusiasm to carry on his work." There is some truth in that, of course, but it is an interpretation which remains on the surface of things.

The truth is that when the spirit of a prophet or an Initiate reaches the next world he continues to hold the same convictions and to nourish the same desire to enlighten human beings and help them to evolve. So he goes on with his work in conditions which give him a far better chance of propagating his ideas. This is why the death of certain Initiates did nothing to hinder their ideas from spreading. You only have to look at the extraordinary expansion of Christianity after the death of Jesus.

Criminals should not be punished by death, therefore, because of the consequences on the invisible plane. It is up to human beings to make sure that the conditions of life are such that there will be no more evil-doers. But as long as society is not built on true spiritual foundations it can only be a swamp, and swamps are always a breeding ground for mosquitoes... that is to say, criminals. In these conditions it is an illusion to think that justice can ever be done."

"Killing a person does not eradicate their ideology, because others will take it up and it will live on with even greater momentum. In the other world, the spirit of a prophet or a martyr continues to hold the same convictions, the same desire to enlighten human beings and to help them evolve. While he was on earth, it was not possible for him to meet everyone capable of taking in his ideas, because these people were too dispersed; but once on the astral plane, he is free to seek them out and influence them. This is why the death of certain Initiates can often enhance the propagation of their ideas.

By remaining on earth, of course, a Master can work, act, and serve as a model, but his influence is limited to a very small number of people: those who surround him, who approach him, who know him. But once disengaged from his physical body, he can rouse a far great number of spirits. This does not mean that he must have himself massacred in order to have more influence. No, but it is useful for you to know the laws governing the material and spiritual worlds. "

"When one kills a man, one destroys really only his prison: the physical body. If you think of being freed of somebody by killing him physically, you make a mistake. That is why the capital punishment is not a good solution; because it is as to break a bottle in which is contained a poison gas. If the bottle is broken, the poison spreads in the world and causes there the biggest damages. One guillotined for example a dangerous murderer; really one only killed his body, but his soul did not die. Now he turns out free in the invisible world, he is going to visit certain number of people, rather criminals as he. He tries to infiltrate in their head to suggest them the abominable projects which, because of his death, he had not yet been able to carry out, and so he produces more evil than when he was still in his body of flesh."

Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,012 • Replies: 40
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 10:46 am
Probably not. I have known people whose ambition is to die in a violent manner. Capital punishment is one of the deaths sought by this type.
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paull
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 11:46 am
Much more than cutting and pasting.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 11:47 am
capital punishment is an extremely effectively solution. I'm not sayings it's a good one... but it is effective.
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Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 12:30 pm
The author's point is extremely well taken. There are a lot of troubles with capital punishment, although on the balance, I favor it.

The Vatican issued a statement opposing the hanging of Saddam Hussein, and Saddam stands for everything that is against the teachings of the Catholic faith.

There is an intrinsic darkness and dirtiness about capital punishment. There also is, as spotlighted by Aivanhov's essay, the danger that the punished will become a martyr, which is a way that capital punishment can backfire.

On the other hand, many of the Iraquis felt that if Saddam were instead exiled or imprisoned, that as long as Saddam was alive, loyalists could help him to escape, bring him back to power in Iraq, where he could again oppress the population. Death was the only form of closure.

Both sides have their upsides and their downsides.
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bisca
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 01:44 pm
I am totally and completely opposed to killings of any sort. That is one of the main reasons why I am a vegetarian. I agree with the Vatican. However, the Vatican goes much too far when it tramples on the God giv en rights of women to control their bodies. The Vatican advances thludricrous notion that fetuses are potential life--How ridiculous.

Saddam was alive. He should not have been excuted. A fetus is just a clump of cells. The Vatican goes too far--as usual.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 02:40 pm
They have been executing prisoners for thousands of years. Has it deterred heinous crimes? I think not. Just gives a taste of revenge to the bloodthirsty. And, relatives of the victims often feel some justification. If they did not convict the wrong persons at times, I would not care about the topic. A new argument in support of executions is, "We now have DNA to determine guilt." Well, DNA is only a factor in a percentage of cases, not all of them.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 03:13 pm
Whenever the state has to resort to capitol punishment it provides proof that the state has failed a primary test for civilization. Surely there are better solutions.
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sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 03:19 pm
Yes, surely better solutions than hanging. That is so depressing.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 03:29 pm
To date, there have been forty-seven legal executions in the state of Utah. Of these, thirty-nine were by firing squad, six by hanging, and two by lethal injection. The last hanging was that of Barton Kirkhamn in 1958. He was executed for killing two people in a Salt Lake City grocery store, and he chose hanging because it would put the state to the most trouble and inconvenience. The last firing squad execution was that of Gary Gilmore who was executed for killing two young men in Utah County. He died 17 January 1977, the first person executed after ten years of moratorium on executions in the United States.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 03:33 pm
When they execute an innocent person, all we get is an "Oops."
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 07:48 pm
bisca wrote:
I am totally and completely opposed to killings of any sort. That is one of the main reasons why I am a vegetarian. ...l.


Okay, that made me laugh out loud.


... could be the beers.



I know you said you were a vegetarian, but I'm curious .... do you eat opossum?
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 08:55 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Whenever the state has to resort to capitol punishment it provides proof that the state has failed a primary test for civilization. Surely there are better solutions.


Yep.

Like in the case of Saddam, a bit of useful public service (which ordinary people do every day) like cleaning toilets for the rest of his life. :wink: Now that would be useful & also would also give him plenty of time to contemplate the wisdom of his past deeds. Instead he goes out as a martyr to his supporters!

There must be plenty of other useful punishments for folk (& world leaders!) whose behaviour and and actions have caused unnecessary cruelty & destruction in the lives of innocent people.
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 02:41 pm
bisca wrote:
I am totally and completely opposed to killings of any sort. That is one of the main reasons why I am a vegetarian. I agree with the Vatican. However, the Vatican goes much too far when it tramples on the God giv en rights of women to control their bodies. The Vatican advances thludricrous notion that fetuses are potential life--How ridiculous.

Saddam was alive. He should not have been excuted. A fetus is just a clump of cells. The Vatican goes too far--as usual.

A fetus isn't a potential life? Shocked The embryo is a life, how can you say a potential life?
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 02:42 pm
I am not in favor of the death penalty. However, I wouldn't have minded had the judges turned Saddam over to the Iraqi public in a big arena.
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Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 09:56 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
bisca wrote:
I am totally and completely opposed to killings of any sort. That is one of the main reasons why I am a vegetarian. ...l.


Okay, that made me laugh out loud.


... could be the beers.



I know you said you were a vegetarian, but I'm curious .... do you eat opossum?

Tico, man, I invite you to check out some of bisca's posts on the Carter thread. Bisca may be a vegetarian but you wouldn't think it to see the hard hitting on-target posts.

It's perfectly human to cringe a little at the thought of actually watching a human, no matter how poor a specimen, having his neck snapped.

This thread lives on the headline of Saddam's hanging, so it's fair to say that asshole is who we really are talking about. Saddam had Germany, France and Russia on the Food for Oil payroll, illegitimately, and many think the corruption ran as high as Kofi Annan himself, and it definitely included Kofi's son. As entrenched as the fear of Saddam ran, throughout Iraq all these years, an exiled Saddam just wasn't a safe thought for anybody.

He had to be killed.

As for the act of killing, watching others being killed, a lot of gun owners get hurt because of choking on the act of pulling the trigger.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 10:01 pm
I don't think anyone proposes it as a solution, rather, as a deterrent.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:07 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I don't think anyone proposes it as a solution, rather, as a deterrent.


When you say "anyone" do you include closet queers who live in Michigan? Just wondering...
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:10 pm
Let me be precise.."closet queers who are presently in Michigan" since obviously there are lots of closet queers from Michigan who, for one reason or the the other, aren't currently there.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 04:23 am
Now I ask you Roxxxanne - was that necessary?

(edit) Nevermind - I just read the "rodent" line on another thread...
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