U.S. military considers foreign recruits

These are my concerns:

The military has been lowering standards and increasing compensation to attempt to maintain its recruitment efforts for U.S. residents. Admitting nonresidents into the military would lessen the current strain, but it would do nothing to give incentive to increase future compensations and veteran benefits.

Recruiting nonresident soldiers and marines would make the military a mercenary force. The "do it for our freedom and democracy" indoctrination would be replaced by "do it for money to send home to the family."

The courts have ruled that promises made by the US military when recruiting do not have to be kept. If a non citizen gets his/her legs blown off and requires a lifetime of treatment, what are the guarantees that American government would honor such? What are the implications on the existing VA system of honoring or NOT honoring said commitments?

Would the use of foreigners turn them into cheap cannon fodder where their lives would become more "expendable" because there were no voters in America that were concerned about them?

Where would it end? As you get an ever-growing force of foreigners serving would a president be more willing to engage in wars? Much of what turned Americans against the Vietnam war was the loss of American lives. Would war as policy become more acceptable if it was just some poor guy from Panama or the Philippines getting his legs blown off?

How would such units integrate with existing units? Would there be double standards in equipment and the like. Would rivalries and divisions form within the military due to a perception of different "classes" of troops?

Some people fear the "invasion" of immigrants from Mexico as an attempt to seize land. If this is the justification for closing the borders, why would you then allow entrance and give citizenship if they receive training and serve in the military?

How will Americans feel about an a veteran foreign legion coming home to America? Would laws need to be passed to restrict ownership of weapons if you were a foreign veteran to prevent uprisings of such groups?

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Well I wouldnt volunteer for the US army unless I was really really desperate and needed some new boots, and I'm not and I dont.

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Butrflynet:

Quote:

The military has been lowering standards and increasing compensation to attempt to maintain its recruitment efforts for U.S. residents. Admitting nonresidents into the military would lessen the current strain, but it would do nothing to give incentive to increase future compensations and veteran benefits.

We already have non-citizens serving in the military, I know a few of them. When it comes to retention in the military, they don't look at if you are a citizen or not, all they see is a soldier.

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Recruiting nonresident soldiers and marines would make the military a mercenary force. The "do it for our freedom and democracy" indoctrination would be replaced by "do it for money to send home to the family."

We don't operate as a mercenary force so we don't recruite like a mercenary force. If someone in a forgein country wants to serve they are welcome but they first have to gain entry into the country in order to sign up as far as I know. As I said before, we have a large population of Phillipians who serve in the Navy.

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The courts have ruled that promises made by the US military when recruiting do not have to be kept. If a non citizen gets his/her legs blown off and requires a lifetime of treatment, what are the guarantees that American government would honor such? What are the implications on the existing VA system of honoring or NOT honoring said commitments?

There is a difference between a promise and a contract. If something is put into your contract at time of setup them it has to be honored. If a recruiter tells you that you can be a pilot but doesn't put it in your contract then there is no guarantee that you will be a pilot. You will have to submit apps as well as certain types of test scores to be granted entry to flight school. Then after that you still have to pass the school and that is up to you.

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How would such units integrate with existing units? Would there be double standards in equipment and the like. Would rivalries and divisions form within the military due to a perception of different "classes" of troops?

What do you mean by integrate with existing units? You know the military doesn't sepgreate any more right? When you join you are a soldier, a sailor, a marine or an airmen.

There are already rivalries and divisions within the military. In the Army your either a POG (people other then grunts). If your a grunt you look down on POG's because they aren't hard core. If your a POG you look down on grunts because they are stupid. I know it isn't going to change and it is part of the fun of being in the military.

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Some people fear the "invasion" of immigrants from Mexico as an attempt to seize land. If this is the justification for closing the borders, why would you then allow entrance and give citizenship if they receive training and serve in the military?

There is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. A vast majority of Americans have no problem with legal immigration it is the illegal immigration that is seen as an invasion.

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How will Americans feel about an a veteran foreign legion coming home to America? Would laws need to be passed to restrict ownership of weapons if you were a foreign veteran to prevent uprisings of such groups?

I'm sure this is a non-issue.

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Quite interesting that although an US citizen's enlistment in the armed forces of a foreign country may not constitute a violation of U.S. law, it could subject him or her to Section 349(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act [8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3)] which provides for loss of U.S. nationality.

The Mexicans are, btw, the largest foreign nationality in the US Forces:
the United States' roughly 30,000 foreign soldiers come from more than 100 countries, with the largest contingent living in California. More than a third are Hispanic.

Quote:

Immigrants and noncitizens have served in all U.S. wars - willingly and otherwise - since the American Revolution. During the Civil War, the Union army recruited Irish immigrants off the boat.

Alfred Rascon, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, won the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War and later became a U.S. citizen

Dallas Morning News (28.11.2006)

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I am wondering if we could somehow persuade Germans to join the US Militray. After all, they have a great military tradition based on the Prussian model and they were reputed to be, by far, the best soldiers in World War II.

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According to an answer by the (German) Bundestag (Lower chamber of parliament) to a question by some MP's (as of 11.07.2001), there are no figures how many Germans soldiers serve as mercenaries in foreign armies.
But it is thaught, all have a at least extreme right-wing background.

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quite a few germans went to the united states after WW II , joined the u.s. armed forces and "earned" their u.s. citizenship that way (a brother of our neighbour did it that way) . it also helped him to obtain his university education thereafter .
we considered going to the u.s. in 1956 , but since we did not have a sponsor opted for canada instead .
since we were able to pay our own fare and had $200 in our pockets , we had our visa quickly .
applied for visa in march , got married in may and landed in canada in august .
now it can take 3 to 5 years for 'approved' immigrants to receive theur visa - that's just ridiculous imo .
hbg

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Thank You, Hamburger, for your information that "quite a few Germans joined the US Armed Forces. As I mentioned, the Germans appear to have been fond of organization and efficiency. However, the US is becoming more Latino and less European. People who are even partly German formed 23% of the US populace in 1990 but only 15% in the 2000 census. At that rate of decline, they will measure no more than 8% in 2010. Perhaps we can induce more Germans from the failing Socialistic mess they find themselves in to join the US Military and then becoming US citizens.

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Baldimo wrote:

There are already rivalries and divisions within the military. In the Army your either a POG (people other then grunts). If your a grunt you look down on POG's because they aren't hard core. If your a POG you look down on grunts because they are stupid. I know it isn't going to change and it is part of the fun of being in the military.

So, you're telling me that people in the military refer to the infantry (I assume you mean infantry when you say 'grunts') as being stupid (I assume it's mostly (again, mostly) lower educated soldiers in the infantry right?).

But when someone like Kerry mis-states a joke that calls some in the military stupid people get all pissed off.

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maporsche wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
There are already rivalries and divisions within the military. In the Army your either a POG (people other then grunts). If your a grunt you look down on POG's because they aren't hard core. If your a POG you look down on grunts because they are stupid. I know it isn't going to change and it is part of the fun of being in the military.

So, you're telling me that people in the military refer to the infantry (I assume you mean infantry when you say 'grunts') as being stupid (I assume it's mostly (again, mostly) lower educated soldiers in the infantry right?).

But when someone like Kerry mis-states a joke that calls some in the military stupid people get all pissed off.

It is a common judement among people who are in the military that "grunts" are dumb, but I will tell you that they have some of the brightest people in the military. I have loads of respect for the grunts or crunchies as we call them in avaition. To be honest some of the least smart people I have met in the military have been in POL (people who pump fuel) and that seems to be more of a lack of common sense then anything else.

The difference between what I said and what Kerry said was that fact that he said pretty much all military were stupid. If you don't do well in school you end up in Iraq.

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Baldimo wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
There are already rivalries and divisions within the military. In the Army your either a POG (people other then grunts). If your a grunt you look down on POG's because they aren't hard core. If your a POG you look down on grunts because they are stupid. I know it isn't going to change and it is part of the fun of being in the military.

So, you're telling me that people in the military refer to the infantry (I assume you mean infantry when you say 'grunts') as being stupid (I assume it's mostly (again, mostly) lower educated soldiers in the infantry right?).

But when someone like Kerry mis-states a joke that calls some in the military stupid people get all pissed off.

It is a common judement among people who are in the military that "grunts" are dumb, but I will tell you that they have some of the brightest people in the military. I have loads of respect for the grunts or crunchies as we call them in avaition. To be honest some of the least smart people I have met in the military have been in POL (people who pump fuel) and that seems to be more of a lack of common sense then anything else.

The difference between what I said and what Kerry said was that fact that he said pretty much all military were stupid. If you don't do well in school you end up in Iraq.

So, if you don't do well in school are you more likely to be in the infantry or in pilot training?

Again, refer to my post, I'm talking in generalities here, I'm sure there are some very smart people in the infantry. But most of them don't have college degrees right? Hell, more and more of them wouldn't have even been allowed in uniform 10 years ago.

Now, which one is more likely to be stuck on the ground in Iraq. What is the mortality rate for each assignment?

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snood wrote:

Could you at least roll your eyes a little more specifically.

Do you ever have anything to contribute to a post?

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maporsche wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
There are already rivalries and divisions within the military. In the Army your either a POG (people other then grunts). If your a grunt you look down on POG's because they aren't hard core. If your a POG you look down on grunts because they are stupid. I know it isn't going to change and it is part of the fun of being in the military.

So, you're telling me that people in the military refer to the infantry (I assume you mean infantry when you say 'grunts') as being stupid (I assume it's mostly (again, mostly) lower educated soldiers in the infantry right?).

But when someone like Kerry mis-states a joke that calls some in the military stupid people get all pissed off.

It is a common judement among people who are in the military that "grunts" are dumb, but I will tell you that they have some of the brightest people in the military. I have loads of respect for the grunts or crunchies as we call them in avaition. To be honest some of the least smart people I have met in the military have been in POL (people who pump fuel) and that seems to be more of a lack of common sense then anything else.

The difference between what I said and what Kerry said was that fact that he said pretty much all military were stupid. If you don't do well in school you end up in Iraq.

So, if you don't do well in school are you more likely to be in the infantry or in pilot training?

Again, refer to my post, I'm talking in generalities here, I'm sure there are some very smart people in the infantry. But most of them don't have college degrees right? Hell, more and more of them wouldn't have even been allowed in uniform 10 years ago.

Now, which one is more likely to be stuck on the ground in Iraq. What is the mortality rate for each assignment?

More then likely you are going to be in a very low tech job in the military. I don't think the infantry counts as a low tech job because of some of the tools they use. I think one of the low tech jobs would be cooks, construction or vechicel driving. They don't require a lot smarts to do those jobs. Being smart or dumb has nothing to do with a soldier being deployed. I've seen both on my deployment.

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Baldimo wrote:

So non-Americans are not as important to you as Americans? Does that mean their lives aren't worth as much?

American foreign policy in a nutshell. A policy that, you must remember, you unswervingly support.

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JTT wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

So non-Americans are not as important to you as Americans? Does that mean their lives aren't worth as much?

American foreign policy in a nutshell. A policy that, you must remember, you unswervingly support.

Your point? What does that have to do with whether non-citizens who are here legally serve in the military?

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JTT rarely has a point.

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maporsche wrote:

snood wrote:

Could you at least roll your eyes a little more specifically.

Do you ever have anything to contribute to a post?

If you call what you do here "contributing", then no.

(By the way, we contribute to threads, bu submitting posts, just so you get that straight)

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bu submitting
Rolling Eyes

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LoneStarMadam wrote:

bu submitting

It's nice that you're rolling your eyes specifically at what snood is saying. That is quite helpful, and much less confusing.

I will add though that this specific post is not at all contributing to this thread.
Neither is mine.

Neither are ANY of snoods, EVER!

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U.S. military considers foreign recruits

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