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In Letter, GOP Rep Fears Influx of Muslims

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:54 am
Okie
Okie, you appear not to understand the definition of a bigot. Looking in the mirror might be a shock.---BBB

For people named Bigot and other meanings, see Bigot (disambiguation).
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.

Etymology

The exact origin of the term is unknown, but may have come from the German bei and gott, or the English by God. William Camden wrote that the Normans were first called bigots, when their Duke Rollo, who receiving Gisla, daughter of King Charles, in marriage, and with her the investiture of the dukedom, refused to kiss the king's foot in token of subjection, unless the king would hold it out for that purpose. And being urged to it by those present, Rollo answered hastily, "No by God", whereupon the King turning about, called him bigot; which name passed from him to his people [1]. This is likely fictional, however, as Gisla is unknown in Frankish sources. It is true that the French used the term bigot as an abuse for the Normans.[2]

The 12th century Anglo-Norman author Wace claimed that bigot was an insult that the French used against the Normans, but it is unclear whether it entered the English language via this route.[3]

According to Egon Friedell, "bigot" is of the same root as "visigoth". In Vulgar Latin the initial v transformed into b (phenomenon today encountered in Iberian languages, such as Spanish language and Portuguese language; visi had truncated into bi in Vulgar Latin (phenomenon common in French and Portuguese). Certainly the Visigoths did behave in a manner which might have given birth to the expression; they were very race-conscious and intolerant; they loathed Roman civilization which they saw as effete and degenerated; they professed Arianism while their subjects were Catholics, they enforced very strict anti-Jewish laws in Spain, and they treated their Roman subjects as their inferiors and gave the birth to expression "blue-blooded" because of their fairer skin (where veins were more translucent and bluish than that of their Roman subjects). The Spanish word bigote means moustache, probably because Visigoths had moustaches. Since both Normans and Goths were Germanic peoples, the Franks as a Romance nation might well have referred the Normans as "Visigoths" with the expression bigot. This claim is also supported by the fact that the word bigoth for Visigoths appear in Medieval Latin language.

Barbara Walker in her book "Womens Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets" claims the term was coined by German Pagans in reference to the intolerant Catholic missionaries and priests by the term "bei gott" or bigot. As "be got" was a term commonly used by the priests and missionaries. The Catholic priests and missionaries who first converted were, according to her, notoriously close minded and intolerant of all other religions. History doesn't necessarily support this view, see St. Boniface. According to Walker, they saw them also as hypocritical in that they claimed Jesus Christ the "Prince of Peace" and went about converting people through tortorous means, and murdered those who would not accept Jesus Christ the "Prince of Peace" as lord and savior. This explanation is not likely to be true, however, as German bei is not pronounced with hard i as in English "bee", but as English "bye", and would have produced a word not unlike byegot or baigot. Likewise, the history does not support Walker's view, as the Germans and Franks adopted Christianity fairly peacefully in the Dark Ages.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2006 01:22 pm
Re: Okie
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Okie, you appear not to understand the definition of a bigot. Looking in the mirror might be a shock.---BBB


BBB, let me try to explain something very basic that you and many liberals apparently cannot grasp the concept of. It is very simple, if you would just try to understand it.

You do not agree with me. Does than make you bigoted against me because my opinion does not agree with you? Under your definition, it does. Just because I do not agree with you and do not believe some things, some influences are not the correct ones, does that make me bigoted? If it did, everyone would be bigoted. Since Republicans do not agree with Democrats and vice versa, are we all bigoted? Obviously not.

If I do not subscribe to the Muslim religion, am I bigoted? No. If I proceed to disallow their practice of their religion, then perhaps you have an argument, but I have never said that. I have simply said there may be elements of the Muslim religion that might bring on a negative effect on society, if such religious beliefs come into the majority of a culture and a government. Holding that belief does not make me bigoted. My belief can be supported by evidence.

Further, I have never argued that the Christian religion has not been mis-used and caused much suffering on people in history because of those that have mis-used it. I have never advocated such mis-use. I am for freedom, including religious freedom, for which many of the Europeans came here to establish and enjoy.

I do not think you are a fan of Christian faiths. If I'm wrong about this, I apologize. If I"m correct on this point, does that make you bigoted? I don't think so unless you set out to deny the rights of those that consider themselves Christians.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2006 09:58 pm
So BBB makes a drive by post, then leaves, not defending her assertion with any evidence, or disputing the logic with any logic of her own. Her statement of definition that says:

"Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views."

To translate, If my views are lableled as prejudices by BBB, and if BBB challenges my views, I am possibly and probably bigoted, and if my views are proven false, according to her of course, then I am bigoted beyond any reasonable doubt. By using the same reasoning, I think your opinions are prejudiced, and I am hereby challenging them, so you are very likely a bigot. I think your views are proven false by logic, which really seals your being a bigot.

Please note BBB does not mind calling other people bigots, which I believe is an obvious example of her own prejudices that exist without reasonable evidence, which according to her own definition, would make herself a bigot. Thank you for clearing this debate up, BBB.

What this boils down to folks is the arrogance of liberals. If you do not agree with them, and if you do not put your stamp of approval on everything they believe, live, and do, you are a bigot. Things are not a matter of opinion anymore. Either agree with them or you are a bigot. Got that.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:14 pm
Quote:
I do not think you are a fan of Christian faiths. If I'm wrong about this, I apologize. If I"m correct on this point, does that make you bigoted? I don't think so unless you set out to deny the rights of those that consider themselves Christians.


So it is only bigoted if it denies the rights of Christians? That seems a little self serving okie.

Don't you think that it was bigotry to not vote for JFK because he was Catholic and would follow the bidding of the Pope? I think it was. It is the same bigotry to not want Muslims to hold office because they will follow their God. There is no difference between the two. Whether Goode is bigoted or not is hard to answer but he is playing the politics of appealing to bigotry.

Where Goode really hits the bigotry is by tying immigration to muslim politicians. The majority of immigrants, legal and illegal are hardly muslim. Most of Latin America is catholic.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:41 pm
I'd be fearful of an influx of muslims.
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rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 12:10 am
Wilso
Than you should move to the USA because conserative politicians just love your kind.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 06:07 am
Wilso - I love how that statement goes with your avatar. Very Happy
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 07:31 am
Quote:
Friday, December 22, 2006

Swearing on the Qur'an
And the Nut on Miami

Florida Governor Jeb Bush called Denver congressman Tom Tancredo "a nut" for comparing Miami to a "third world" country. Cuban-Americans and other minorities who vote Republican in the fond hope that the American Right will accept them should reconsider. The American Right is about exclusion and hierarchy, not about the acceptance of diversity.

Tancredo is such a Scrooge that he actually voted against aid for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. And, he threatened to nuke Mecca.

Yup, I'd say that's pretty nutty.

The real question is, just how many nuts are there in Congress? At least one more.

Republican Representative Virgil Goode of Virginia wrote his constituents,

"The Muslim representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran . . ."


The purpose of statements like that of Goode is to mark Muslim Americans as permanent outsiders and to rally bigotted Christians. (Just as the purpose of Tancredo's remarks is to do the same thing to Latinos). The technique is a fascist technique, of spreading hatred and demanding the 'purification' of the body public as a way of whipping up fervor in a constituency. It is shameful, but more, it is very, very dangerous. The United States of America depends for its survival on tolerance of diversity. Bigotry can easily tear it apart.

Islamophobia or Anti-Muslimism is now among the more pressing social pathologies infecting the US. If it becomes established and acceptable, then lots of other forms of bigotry will also grow in virulence. There could end up being blood in the streets.

Goode is first of all confused. The issue of freedom of religion for American Muslims has nothing to do with immigration. Congressman Keith Ellison is not an immigrant-- his family has been here since the 1700s, perhaps longer than Goode's. Tancredo's remarks on Miami are even nuttier if one realizes that Florida was Spanish for centuries before any Anglos settled there in numbers. It is the "whites" who are "immigrants" in Florida.

Goode's position is not only un-American and bigotted, but it is also actually unconstitutional. The First Amendment of the US Constitution (which perhaps Goode doesn't like very much?) says,

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.'


This amendment forbids Goode and other congressmen from formally supporting one religion or sect over another. The "establishment" of religion in the 18th century meant that the state backed it, collected money from citizens for it, and used police to enforce its beliefs and rituals (Virginia jailed Quakers for refusing baptism).

But the amendment not only forbids the government from supporting a particular religion, it also guarantees that Americans can freely practice any religion they wish. The government cannot "prohibit" the "free exercise" of any religion in the US, including Islam.

If Goode sponsored a bill to limit immigration for the express purpose of excluding Muslim immigrants or preventing the free exercise of Islam, the bill would be unconstitutional.

Nor would the framers of the constitution have agreed with his attitude.

George Washington asked in a March 24, 1784, letter to his aide Tench Tilghman that some craftsmen be hired for him: "If they are good workmen, they may be of Assia, [sic] Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, [Muslims] Jews, or Christian of any Sect - or they may be Atheists ..."

Ben Franklin, the founding father of many important institutions in Philadelphia, a key diplomat and a framer of the US Constitution, wrote in his Autobiography concerning a non-denominational place of public preaching he helped found "so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service." Here is the whole quote:


'And it being found inconvenient to assemble in the open air, subject to its inclemencies, the building of a house to meet in was no sooner propos'd, and persons appointed to receive contributions, but sufficient sums were soon receiv'd to procure the ground and erect the building, which was one hundred feet long and seventy broad, about the size of Westminster Hall; and the work was carried on with such spirit as to be finished in a much shorter time than could have been expected. Both house and ground were vested in trustees, expressly for the use of any preacher of any religious persuasion who might desire to say something to the people at Philadelphia; the design in building not being to accommodate any particular sect, but the inhabitants in general; so that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service. '



Somehow I don't think one Virgil Goode is likely to go down in history as good enough to shine Ben Franklin's shoes.

Thomas Jefferson wrote in his 1777 Draft of a
Bill for Religious Freedom:

' that our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right . . . '


As I observed on another occasion, it was Jefferson's more bigotted opponents in the Virginia legislature who brought up the specter of Muslims and atheists being elected to it in the world Jefferson was trying to create. He was undeterred by such considerations, which should tell us something.

I also once pointed out that John Locke had already advocated civil rights for non-Christians in his Letter on Toleration:

' Thus if solemn assemblies, observations of festivals, public worship be permitted to any one sort of professors [believers], all these things ought to be permitted to the Presbyterians, Independents, Anabaptists, Arminians, Quakers, and others, with the same liberty. Nay, if we may openly speak the truth, and as becomes one man to another, neither Pagan nor Mahometan, nor Jew, ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth because of his religion. The Gospel commands no such thing. '


Here is Jefferson again: "The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens."
-- Thomas Jefferson, note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816.

Or: "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

The US Senate, full of founding fathers, and the Adams government, approved the Treaty with Libya of 1797, which included this language:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


The treaty is important for showing the mindset of the fashioners of the American system.

So Virgil Goode should consider emigrating himself, to someplace where his sort of views might be welcome. They certainly aren't in the United States of America. And they never have been part of this country's values and principles.


source
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 08:29 am
I haven't paid a lot of attention to this.... some redneck hateful ignorant jerk off being supported by people like him, but I just saw on CNN that he's from Rocky Mt. Virginia and that explained a lot. A little corner of inbred heaven lying between Martinsville and Roanoke where formal attire means buttoning the top button on your flannel hunting shirt and wearing clean waders and there are four last names in teh phone book.

No wonder. Laughing

And naturally the republican party can't decide whether to repudiate this scumbag's remarks or to continue to pander to the one part of their backasswards base that still rabidly supports them. Dennis Hasterts office among others refuse to return any phone calls from news services. Warms my heart to see these scumbags squirm.

Goode nees to warm up the tractor, he's in his last term.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:04 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I haven't paid a lot of attention to this.... some redneck hateful ignorant jerk off being supported by people like him, but I just saw on CNN that he's from Rocky Mt. Virginia and that explained a lot. A little corner of inbred heaven lying between Martinsville and Roanoke where formal attire means buttoning the top button on your flannel hunting shirt and wearing clean waders and there are four last names in teh phone book.

No wonder. Laughing

And naturally the republican party can't decide whether to repudiate this scumbag's remarks or to continue to pander to the one part of their backasswards base that still rabidly supports them. Dennis Hasterts office among others refuse to return any phone calls from news services. Warms my heart to see these scumbags squirm.

Goode nees to warm up the tractor, he's in his last term.


Hey Bear does this mean you are a bigot?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:07 am
you've already decided right Larry?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:35 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
you've already decided right Larry?


No I'm just asking. It appears your statement about people from that part of the country is a bigoted statement. Them being backwards and all.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:41 am
you may certainly say so if you think it will divert attention from Goode and his constituents
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:46 am
Bear
Well it's obvious that white-furred Bi-Polar-Bear is a bigot. Have you ever seen any pictures of him associating with Black Bears?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 11:33 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
you may certainly say so if you think it will divert attention from Goode and his constituents


I was just following the thread. The term bigot come up and was being applied to people on the board who exhibited "bigot" like comments. Just making sure we had everyone covered.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 11:37 am
well there's a few more that need to check in to be at 100% but thanks for bringing us close to our goal....
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 11:42 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
well there's a few more that need to check in to be at 100% but thanks for bringing us close to our goal....


No problem. My pleasure. Oh I should add my name to the list as well. I know I have made some bigot like comments in the past and I'm sure I will in the future.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 09:37 am
But It's Thomas Jefferson's Koran!
But It's Thomas Jefferson's Koran!
By Amy Argetsinger and Roxanne Roberts
Wednesday, January 3, 2007
Washington Post

Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, found himself under attack last month when he announced he'd take his oath of office on the Koran -- especially from Virginia Rep. Virgil Goode, who called it a threat to American values.

Yet the holy book at tomorrow's ceremony has an unassailably all-American provenance. We've learned that the new congressman -- in a savvy bit of political symbolism -- will hold the personal copy once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

If Keith Ellison, above, takes the ceremonial oath of office using Thomas Jefferson's Koran, will he and Virgil Goode at long last be on the same page? Don't hold your breath. (Mark Wilson - Getty Images)

"He wanted to use a Koran that was special," said Mark Dimunation, chief of the rare book and special collections division at the Library of Congress, who was contacted by the Minnesota Dem early in December. Dimunation, who grew up in Ellison's 5th District, was happy to help.

Jefferson's copy is an English translation by George Sale published in the 1750s; it survived the 1851 fire that destroyed most of Jefferson's collection and has his customary initialing on the pages. This isn't the first historic book used for swearing-in ceremonies -- the Library has allowed VIPs to use rare Bibles for inaugurations and other special occasions.

Ellison will take the official oath of office along with the other incoming members in the House chamber, then use the Koran in his individual, ceremonial oath with new Speaker Nancy Pelosi. "Keith is paying respect not only to the founding fathers' belief in religious freedom but the Constitution itself," said Ellison spokesman Rick Jauert.

One person unlikely to be swayed by the book's illustrious history is Goode, who released a letter two weeks ago objecting to Ellison's use of the Koran. "I believe that the overwhelming majority of voters in my district would prefer the use of the Bible," the Virginia Republican told Fox News, and then went on to warn about what he regards as the dangers of Muslims immigrating to the United States and Muslims gaining elective office.

Yeah, but what about a Koran that belonged to one of the greatest Virginians in history? Goode, who represents Jefferson's birthplace of Albemarle County, had no comment yesterday.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jan, 2007 03:14 pm
This is Congressman Goode's new Office window.

http://www.readthehook.com/images/issues/2007/0601/news-goodewindow.jpg

Source: News Story
0 Replies
 
 

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