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Europe hits back at Bush in GM row

 
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 02:55 pm
frolic wrote:
IMHO opinion its the industry letting Africa starve. Its the mining companies benefiting from civil war in Congo. The same for the diamondindustry in Sierra Leone, lumber, .... They profit from the chaos in Africa to loot the continent.

Industry, IMHO (opinion vs. opinion) supplies Africa with money it needs to provide tolerable life to its inhabitants. Unfortunately, its savage, selfish and bloodthirsty tribal chiefs steal all the revenues.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 02:57 pm
Scrat wrote:
Walter - Let the record show that you and yours would rather people starve than accept new and demonstrably safe food technology. GM food is not dog food. GM food is not decomposed food. GM food is food engineered to grow more abundantly or to be resistant to those elements that reduce usable crop yields. It is the height of hubris and the depth of depravity that people with plenty to eat would deny food to those who are starving and do so out of simple, willful ignorance. People are starving so that you and yours can make a political point. Well done! Sad


And where is the proof that GM is a solid solution for the hunger in the world. This is just a false comparison made by a mad-man in order to allow his sponsors to export to Europe and add some more Billions to their bank-account. Like they care how much people die of famine.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 03:00 pm
Scrat wrote:
Hbeth asked- children, grandchildren.
Have you read any of the research on it, or just assumed it is unsafe because others who are equally uninformed told you so? Can you cite for me the scientific, double-blind studies you've read on the subject? Which ones indicated there was a danger in consuming GM food? Just one, maybe?

Now, tell us again how "no one has convinced me it is safe".


Just name one (1) single study that gives results on reactions to -like eHbeth asked- children, granchildren ...
(Remeber "contergan" and how safe and good it was said for pregnant women? And there had been x studies about this!)
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 03:01 pm
frolic wrote:
Scrat wrote:
Walter - Let the record show that you and yours would rather people starve than accept new and demonstrably safe food technology. GM food is not dog food. GM food is not decomposed food. GM food is food engineered to grow more abundantly or to be resistant to those elements that reduce usable crop yields. It is the height of hubris and the depth of depravity that people with plenty to eat would deny food to those who are starving and do so out of simple, willful ignorance. People are starving so that you and yours can make a political point. Well done! Sad


And where is the proof that GM is a solid solution for the hunger in the world. This is just a false comparison made by a mad-man in order to allow his sponsors to export to Europe and add some more Billions to their bank-account. Like they care how much people die of famine.

I need show no such proof. My only point here is that right now there are GM foods available to feed people who are starving at this very moment and they are being denied those foods by ignorant, arrogant children who value their own uninformed opinions above human lives.
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frolic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 03:09 pm
This is what's going on.

US seed companies are keen to sell their products to foreign markets in order to get more profit.

Many Europeans fear long-term harm to human health and the environment.

All the rest is crap.
That Africa sidewalk by Bush is just a trick to soften the European resistance. His main concern is entrance to the EU Market, not the people of Africa. Do you really think he cares about one single african dying because of lack of food? Why didn't he use the Iraq-budget on aid for Africa then?
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 04:52 pm
Last I heard there is plenty enough food for everyone, and the only reason anyone starves is politics.

In an economy based on scarcity, you want the other guy to be hurting, so you can sell them a solution and control the situation for profit. That's just capitalism, pure and simple.

Bush wants American GM foods to have more power in Europe, and he's willing to do whatever it takes to have America rule, even if it endangers people's lives.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 05:01 pm
Is the technology really ruthless? Shocked

Are you sure that Bush is behind this push for GM foods? It seems like the industry is pushing this more than Bush. Do you have some knowledge you would like to share?

Can anyone save us from this mad new science?!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 06:39 pm
My academic background is in the environmental sciences. When I was actively studying (over 20 years ago), studies on genetically modified foods were ongoing - the results were not clear - some studies went one way - others another. This is still the case. I'll post a couple of links here from a special feature of the New Scientist (not usually considered a radical source).

Quote:
Yet in Britain, where there is still no commercial growing, the GM industry's prospects have taken another dive. A report on the potential health impacts of GM foods slams the current system of safety screening-developed in the US-as flawed and subjective, and calls for better tests (see "Good enough to eat?"). The fact that existing GM crops haven't harmed anyone is no reason for complacency, the report warns. The next generation will be more complex, and even subtle changes in foods could have an impact on people dependent on single food sources-such as babies fed formula milk.

Just another gloomy warning from green consumer activists? Far from it. The report comes from a panel of scientists set up by the Royal Society in London, and is an astonishing sign of how far Britain's scientific establishment has moved on this issue. A few years ago, senior scientists were wont to dismiss public concerns about GM crops as hysteria. Now they are telling regulators to get tougher.

The report rightly has no truck with the more lurid fears about GM technology-such as the idea that the DNA that is added to food crops could create dangerous viruses. But as it points out, inserting genes into plants is not yet an exact science, so unforeseen side effects on a plant's biochemistry are a real possibility. Toxins normally present in a plant at harmless levels might increase. Nutrients important to a balanced diet might decline.
this is from

The planet has never been more divided over transgenic crops


I could bore you, and me, to tears with links on both sides of this but I'll go with one that has pro and con articles.

LATEST ARTICLES ON GM FOODS

Does anyone remember the Nestle boycott of the 1970's? ... it's not over ...

I'll leave this (or try to) by saying that I'm not willing to take a chance with my friends and family and GM foods, and I don't wish the questions/possible dangers on anyone else.

I do think that there are people who need to be fed. I don't think there is a particular need to experiment on them with GM food. Non-GM food can be sent to them, and is.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 06:42 pm
McGentrix : I didn't see your question about Bush. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't lay any particular blame for this, or interest in it, on him.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Jun, 2003 07:02 pm
read this for another unbiased opinion from the Nuffield Council on Bioethics

Quote:
The report points out that in developing countries the ability to grow vitamin A-enriched rice and salt-resistant or drought-resistant crops could make a vital impact in combating hunger and malnutrition.

It says: "If we value the ethic of 'to each according to need' … then the introduction of GM crops on a large scale would be a moral imperative. This is because GM crops might produce more food, or more employment income with which to obtain food, for those who need it most urgently. More food for the hungry, unlike tomatoes with a longer shelf-life, is a strong ethical counterweight to set against the concerns of the opponents of GM crops."

The report takes the view that the possibility that GM crops will make a substantial contribution to food security provides a sound reason for doing GM crop research. However, there is an urgent need to direct more GM research at the food staples of developing countries, such as white maize or cassava, rather than just at Western crops.


Quote:
The report concludes that there is no evidence to suggest GM foods are harmful to human health. GM is in most respects an extension and refinement of what has been happening for ten thousand years. It concludes that the genetic modification of crop plants does not differ to such an extent from plant breeding as to make the process morally objectionable.

GM technology is a new tool which plant breeders are using to achieve their breeding goals more accurately and rapidly. The report accepts that some genetic modifications are truly novel but concludes that there is no clear dividing line which could prescribe what types of genetic modification are unacceptable because they are thought by some to be 'unnatural'.

The report says: "At the present time public concern and anxiety about the introduction of GM crops and food is running at a high level. There are calls for bans on GM food and moratoria on GM plantings. We do not believe there is evidence of harm to justify such action."
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:27 am
frolic wrote:
That Africa sidewalk by Bush is just a trick to soften the European resistance. His main concern is entrance to the EU Market, not the people of Africa. Do you really think he cares about one single african dying because of lack of food?

Who cares whether he cares? HE IS DOING SOMETHING. Clinton "cared", and according to Geldof, CLINTON DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

This is what I love about liberals. In the end they care far more about the WHY than the WHAT. If a liberal does something wrong, ...well he had the best of intentions, so we'll praise him anyway. If a conservative does something right, well, he did it for the wrong reasons so we will just complain about that and give him no credit for the good he did.

God bless Bob Geldof for being a human being of real conscience who cares more about the lives of starving children than for the petty machinations of politics. He doesn't give a $h!t about Bush's politics or his reasons--he simply recognizes that Bush is making a difference.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:31 am
Has anyone mentioned that there is already enough existing food to feed the world? Screw GMO foods....go Europe.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:35 am
Then why are people starving?
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:40 am
McG - Now stop annoying them with facts. Confused
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:41 am
As Marie Antoinette said. Let them eat cake. If they would rather starve than use GM produced food. That is their prerogative. In Africa the question is which will come first starvation or ethnic killing. It must be a form of population control.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:43 am
People are starving because those that gots don't wanna share. How about African military governments and factions diverting food from the starving for themselves? The problem is less about food than it is about corrupt politics.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 08:48 am
People are starving because they can't grow food and need to rely on shipments of food that are hijacked. If people had seeds that would grow in the conditions prvalent in Africa, they wouldn't be dependant on outside sources for food.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:10 am
Scrat,

Who cares what Bob Geldof thinks. He has built his career on the hunger in Africa. Is he a well known authority with a PhD in African studies? I dont think so. He is a drug using Alcoholic with nothing better to do in his life. And that why he supports Bush. they have something in common. Wink
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:13 am
McGentrix wrote:
People are starving because they can't grow food and need to rely on shipments of food that are hijacked. If people had seeds that would grow in the conditions prvalent in Africa, they wouldn't be dependant on outside sources for food.


Can the GM-lobby garantee that GM crops will make Africa independant of foreign aid.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:20 am
frolic wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
People are starving because they can't grow food and need to rely on shipments of food that are hijacked. If people had seeds that would grow in the conditions prvalent in Africa, they wouldn't be dependant on outside sources for food.


Can the GM-lobby garantee that GM crops will make Africa independant of foreign aid.


Can Anything? I think that given the opportunity, it would be a great start.
0 Replies
 
 

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