Radicalized, evangelical Christian Pentagon

What's wrong with this video?

I'm trying to think where to start. It is absolutely violative of a mountain of Department of Defense internal regulations, guidelines, core values, instructions, making it very clear that members of the military can not endorse any one particular political position, partisan religious view, they can't hold up a tube of toothpaste like Colgate and push it. Irrespective of that, it's also blatantly violative of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and at least as important it's violative of Clause 3, Article 6 of the Constitution -- you don't even have to get into the Bill of Rights -- which states that we will never have a religion test for any position in the federal government, which was brilliantly prescient of our Founding Fathers.

This, to me, constitutes as much of a national security threat to this country as al-Qaida. In fact, the video itself, to me, would be the No. 1 recruiting tool that I would expect bin Laden, the followers of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, although he's dead, Ayman al Zawahiri, Hezbollah with Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Hamas, the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, to get angry young Islamic men and women in Iran, Syria and Lebanon to join the insurrection and jihadi terrorist activities. This would be a perfect accelerant to create even further conflagration.

Now, I was a JAG [judge advocate general, the lawyers who act as prosecutors and defense attorneys within the military] in the Air Force. I spent three and a half years as a lawyer for President Ronald Reagan in the West Wing, I've been Ross Perot's general counsel. I know the religious right would love to vilify me as a tree-hugging Northern California Sierra Club membership chardonnay-sipping liberal -- not that there'd be anything wrong with that, to wax Seinfeldian -- but I'm not. I'm a Republican. And my family has a very, very long and distinguished military history. We have three consecutive generations of military academy graduates, and my youngest son, who's at the Air Force Academy now, he's a senior, what's called a first classman, is the sixth member of my family to attend the academy. We have 115 years of combined active-duty military service to this country in my immediate family from every combat engagement from World War I to the current one, and this is a pernicious torturing of what our military is supposed to be about.

Of course, I realize people have religious rights. We only have about 2,200 chaplains in each of the military branches; every base has multiple chapels, and these people can pray all they want to themselves, like kids in school can pray to themselves, but when you're in the military, and you're coming in like that one person, Catton, whom I knew when I was a kid at the [Air Force] Academy, and he goes, "I share my faith, that's who I am, and let me tell you right now, the hierarchy as an old-fashioned American is that your first duty is to the Lord, second to your family and your third is to your country." That is the exact opposite of what is taught, and for anyone who understands anything about the military, it is always the country first. When you're told, "Troopers, we're going to go take that hill," you can't stop, fall to your knees and see what your particular version of Moses, Vishnu, Satan, Jesus, Mohammed, Allah, whatever they're going to say, and then quickly make a cellphone call to your family. So it is beyond-the-pale egregious, it is a national security threat every bit as bad as al-Qaida, and these people should be court-martialed.

Next page: "My kids were called '******* Jews' and accused of complicity in the execution of Jesus Christ"

However, when they allow muslims to fall to their knees on a prayer rug 5 times a day, then they can't say much when another falls to their knees.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

However, when they allow muslims to fall to their knees on a prayer rug 5 times a day, then they can't say much when another falls to their knees.

i think you are right about this part. however, i also believe that people should consider deepley what thing is most important to them and do that. if that means that there are other things that you cannot do simutaneously, well, them's the breaks.

so, if your religion is the number one thing that is important to you as a person, a better vocation would be something related to that such as a clergyman, deacon, missionary work or what ever.

to be honest, i really don't know what makes a person have to drag their religion into every moment of the day and subject others to a constant litany of religious verbalisms and acts.

i'm not talking about regular folks that go to church or pray silently before they eat and the kinda normal stuff.

but when my brother in law takes his car to a mechanic, and 30 minutes later walks out to the shop and the guy has the hood up and is praying over the engine, i have to think that is just weird...

and the same goes for when i take over a new position and spend half of the first day scraping taped on bible scriptures and tracts off of the desk, that is weird...

making business decision, or a national decision using the bible as an oracle (ya know, where ya think about something, randomly open to any page and put your finger on a random portion and consider the question answered) is not only weird, but also effects others with different beliefs.

certainly, religion has a place. and a time for actively discussing it.

but that time is not at work; anymore than it is for talking about sports or music or other personal interests.

I pray, I don't fall down on my knees, but will bow my head & pray over a meal no matter where I am.

LSM- Are you a fisherman? I have seen more "red herrings" from you than I have seen in many a moon.

I too hate rap, and think that people who play boomboxes at 102 decibels, need a lesson in manners. But that is a matter of civility and social expectations, which is quite different, then when a boss is spouting his religious views to his underlings. There is a basic imbalance of power, which is grossly unfair, and threatening to the person to whom the sermon is preached.

What's the difference? rap oft times talks about killing cops & other illegal things, that is more than just bad manners, however, that's the right of a ninny to listen or play it, a boss's right is to run his company anyway he sees fit, leave if you don't like it.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A watchdog group that promotes religious freedom in the U.S. military accused senior officers on Monday using their rank and influence to coerce soldiers and airmen into adopting evangelical Christianity.

Such proselytizing, according to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, has created a core of "radical" Christians within the U.S. armed forces and Pentagon who punish those who do not accept evangelical beliefs by stalling their careers.

I have no problem with people saying "grace". I will sit quietly, out of respect for the people who believe (not WHAT they believe)with my head up, until they are finished with their prayer. I will not go on a rap about what I think about their views, and my expectation is that they will not attempt to induce me to follow their beliefs.

If they did, I would be outta there, fast!

....the video. ...was taped in the Pentagon while they were working.

"while they were working" is the problem. it is not the pentagon's job to encourage religion. it's not what i pay them for. the pentagon's job is to use empirical and new information to devise and implement the defense of the united states. and do perform the same functions in a foreign expedition.

so here's the question, really; would you be so enthusiastic in the defense of videos being taped by pentagon officials if the subject matter was how the beatles were better than the stones ? or the raiders vs. the 49ers ? tomato vs. towmahtow?

think about as if you were the owner of a company. you walk into the shop; and instead of doing the work that you are paying them for, your key employees were recording a video encouraging folks to join up with amway...

do you care that they are doing it? or do you only care that they are doing it on your time, with your camera/tape and that their work is not being done ?

and from you; "civilian clothes" ?

yep. wearing the uniform and ensignia of rank of the military wing of the government of the united states implies that the government endorses what you are saying.

You do know that they don't have something going on every minute of the day they are there right? If they took 10 minutes out of their day to do this filming then where's the issue? If they did it everyweek then I would have an issue. You don't agree because it had to do with religion and that is the only thing that bothers you.

I don't have an issue with the video. It was taped in the Pentagon while they were working. Did you want them to change into civilian clothes before talking to the camera?

What should have been done is a disclaimer before the video was shown. "The views expressed in this video are only the views of those interviewed and not the views of who they work for." A simple disclaimer such as this would void the fact that the govt supports the statements of the people.

This whole thing is being made a deal by people who don't like religion and don't want religion any where but in a church. They can have their views in public but no one else is allowed the same freedom.

"Christian Embassy seeks to help diplomats, government leaders and military officers find real and lasting purpose through faith and encouragement. Out of respect for those we serve, we have removed the promotional video from our website until further notice."

The sole basis of our beliefs is the Bible, God's infallible written Word, the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. We believe that it was uniquely, verbally and fully inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it was written without error (inerrant) in the original manuscripts. It is the supreme and final authority in all matters on which it speaks.