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words not plural ending in s

 
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 01:06 pm
I don't follow your reasoning.

Why doesn't it mean a fabric?

In every dictionary I have looked in the definition states that jean is a fabric and says that jeans (the pants) are made of jean or denim (which would suggest that they are both types of fabric).

It is true that the original jean fabric is used less today than is denim, which is more comfortable, but how does that make the fact that jean is used to refer to a fabric no longer relevant?

If I say "jean jacket" I am talking about a jacket made from "jean" fabric.

That jean and denim are often confused fabrics and that denim is increasing in use while jean declines (try putting denim between two horses and see if they can pull it apart) does not mean the word has already lost it's meaning. At least to me and all the dictionaries I consult.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 03:17 pm
I had no idea that "jean" was a separate fabric from denim!
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 03:39 pm
What a wealth of information this thread is! Here's my contribution: Growing up, we referred to "dungarees" what are known elsewhere as "jeans." The American Heritage College Dictionary says this word derives from the Hindi dumgri, but it doesn't define that word. Oh, to have a better reference tool at my disposal!
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 04:10 pm
Quote:
The most widely held view is that denim is an English corruption of the French term "serge de Nimes;" meaning a serge fabric from the town of Nimes in France. The term serge means a twill-weave fabric with a characteristic diagonal wale… Serge de Nimes was very different than denim. It was made of silk and wool, but denim has always been made exclusively of cotton.

...To confuse the issue even more, at this same time, another fabric known as "jean" is known to exist. Research on this textile indicates that it was a fustian (a cotton, linen and/or wool blend) and that the fustian of Genoa, Italy was called jean....

Jean fabric was apparently quite popular, and the English imported it in large quantities as early as the 16th century. By the 18th century, jean cloth was being made completely of cotton, and used to make men's clothing, valued especially for its durability even after repeated washings.

Denim's popularity was also on the rise. It was stronger and more expensive than jean, and though the two fabrics were very similar in other ways, they did have one major difference: denim was made of one colored thread and one white thread; jean was woven of two threads of the same color.

While denim and jean apparently originated in France and Italy, it is likely that they were transmitted to America via England.... English mills may have used the continental names and substantially changed the fabric and manufacturing process.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 04:34 pm
Thanks Wy.
I was too lazy for a real lookup and all I cited was Mirriam Webster.

If anyone wants to confirm my one doubt on the issue:

What did Levi invent? Was it just the pants? Because it obviously wasn't the fabric.
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:17 pm
Craven (and all), I think what Levi Strauss did was put rivets at the points of most wear. The double-stiched seams were already known (French seams) but might not have been used on such heavy fabric before.

When I was in high school, the reason given for banning jeans was that the rivets tore up the seats of the desks...
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:24 pm
The heavy cotton weave from which jeans are made is known as denim, and there is no plausible distinction to be made between them, other than the weave described by Wy. Denim derives from étouffe de Nimes, meaning cloth from the city of Nimes, in France. Many Genoese claimed that the French stole the secret of the cotton weave at the dawn of the sixteenth century when François I invaded Italy.

Any distinction in the quality of the fabric between "jeans" and "denim" would only have been based upon the historical era in which the two stuffs were compared. I doubt that today the distinction any longer holds up. As a life-long dedicated wearer of jeans, i know that the quality and weight of the cloth can vary widely . . .
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 09:27 pm
everybody floss their teeth every day?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jun, 2003 11:49 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
What a wealth of information this thread is! Here's my contribution: Growing up, we referred to "dungarees" what are known elsewhere as "jeans." The American Heritage College Dictionary says this word derives from the Hindi dumgri, but it doesn't define that word. Oh, to have a better reference tool at my disposal!


D'art, my Shorter Oxford says that dungri is a coarse inferior cotton calico cloth in India.

Craven, you don't need a reply I feel, since interim posts have overtaken: suffice to say I was a bit tongue-in -cheek and that American English is different (from the real stuff?) in certain minor but telling details.
Smile

McT
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jun, 2003 12:46 am
From the britannica:

Quote:
denim: durable twill-woven fabric with coloured (usually blue) warp and white filling threads; it is also woven in coloured stripes. The name is said to have originated in the French serge de Nîmes. Denim is yarn-dyed and mill-finished and is usually all-cotton, although considerable quantities are of a cotton-synthetic fibre mixture. Decades of use in the clothing industry, especially in the manufacture of overalls and trousers worn for heavy labour, have demonstrated denim's durability. This quality also made denim serviceable for leisure wear in the late 20th century. See also jeans.


Quote:
jeans: also called Blue Jeans, Dungarees, Denims, or Levi's, trousers originally designed in the United States by Levi Strauss in the mid-19th century as durable work clothes, with the seams and other points of stress reinforced with small copper rivets. They were eventually adopted by workingmen throughout the United States and then worldwide.

Jeans are particularly identified as a standard item of "Western" apparel worn by the American cowboy. After the mid-20th century, various adaptations became internationally a characteristic part of clothing for both men and women. See also denim; Levi Strauss & Co.
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mutmut3
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jun, 2003 06:33 am
Dungarees--that's a term growing up I associated with the jeans of the 50s and James Dean--to be cool later in the 70s, we used "jeans" to refer to the pants & denim to the fabric. But what do we NYers know?
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51Days
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 11:02 am
"This is the news !"

Should be treated in a singular way as well as in a plural way - but mainly singular.

I'm not really 100 per cent certain about that! Embarrassed

Best regards,
Rainer
aka
51Days
0 Replies
 
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 11:34 am
Hi 51, The news is singular. The only time I can think of news being plural is if you refer to the olds and the news. Doesn't exactly fall trippingly from the tongue, does it?

At one time new may have been a singular noun. But now new is an adjective or adverb and doesn't take a plural form. So news stands alone as a singular noun.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 11:41 am
I just had the idea that 'news' has a plural form, but takes a singular verb (same: athletics, darts, linguistics) ( but "the new glasses I got today, were really expensive" Shocked :wink: ).
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 12:12 pm
Walt

Very good. You're smart.

alias
windlass
sassafras
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Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 05:56 pm
Walter, My dictionary agrees with you. News is a plural form but takes a singular verb. So you got new glasses. What does it look like? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 11:48 pm
"Half-borderless" (?), Roberta., earpieces blue, with a little bit of silver on it. (For showing everyone else, what expensive brand I bought, you know :wink: )
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Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 12:01 am
Walter, It sounds tres chic.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 12:18 am
And additionally, I really can see now better. Laughing
(Althought I seems to be quite stupid to buy glasses from a firm, which usually is known for producing "modern casual, jeans and underwear" :wink: .)
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Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 03:21 am
Laughing Jeans, underwear, and eyeglasses. That is one strange combination. If you can see better, then I guess they know what they're doing.

My first two sentences remind me of a stanza from a silly song from my childhood. Indulge me.

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy.
Boom, boom, ain't it great to be nuts.
A man bought a suit of combination underwear.
Wore it nine months without a single care.
Wore it nine months without exaggeration.
Couldn't take it off because he lost the combination.
Boom, boom, etc.
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