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Leaving Iraq, Honorably

 
 
Mexica
 
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 11:10 pm
Leaving Iraq, Honorably
By Chuck Hagel
Sunday, November 26, 2006; Page B07

There will be no victory or defeat for the United States in Iraq. These terms do not reflect the reality of what is going to happen there. The ure of Iraq was always going to be determined by the Iraqis -- not the Americans.

Iraq is not a prize to be won or lost. It is part of the ongoing global struggle against instability, brutality, intolerance, extremism and terrorism. There will be no military victory or military solution for Iraq. Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger made this point last weekend.

The time for more U.S. troops in Iraq has passed. We do not have more troops to send and, even if we did, they would not bring a resolution to Iraq. Militaries are built to fight and win wars, not bind together failing nations. We are once again learning a very hard lesson in foreign affairs: America cannot impose a democracy on any nation -- regardless of our noble purpose.

We have misunderstood, misread, misplanned and mismanaged our honorable intentions in Iraq with an arrogant self-delusion reminiscent of Vietnam. Honorable intentions are not policies and plans. Iraq belongs to the 25 million Iraqis who live there. They will decide their fate and form of government.

It may take many years before there is a cohesive political center in Iraq. America's options on this point have always been limited. There will be a new center of gravity in the Middle East that will include Iraq. That process began over the past few days with the Syrians and Iraqis restoring diplomatic relations after 20 years of having no formal communication.

What does this tell us? It tells us that regional powers will fill regional vacuums, and they will move to work in their own self-interest -- without the United States. This is the most encouraging set of actions for the Middle East in years. The Middle East is more combustible today than ever before, and until we are able to lead a renewal of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, mindless destruction and slaughter will continue in Lebanon, Israel and across the Middle East.

We are a long way from a sustained peaceful resolution to the anarchy in Iraq. But this latest set of events is moving the Middle East in the only direction it can go with any hope of lasting progress and peace. The movement will be imperfect, stuttering and difficult.

America finds itself in a dangerous and isolated position in the world. We are perceived as a nation at war with Muslims. Unfortunately, that perception is gaining credibility in the Muslim world and for many years will complicate America's global credibility, purpose and leadership. This debilitating and dangerous perception must be reversed as the world seeks a new geopolitical, trade and economic center that will accommodate the interests of billions of people over the next 25 years. The world will continue to require realistic, clear-headed American leadership -- not an American divine mission.

The United States must begin planning for a phased troop withdrawal from Iraq. The cost of combat in Iraq in terms of American lives, dollars and world standing has been devastating. We've already spent more than $300 billion there to prosecute an almost four-year-old war and are still spending $8 billion per month. The United States has spent more than $500 billion on our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And our effort in Afghanistan continues to deteriorate, partly because we took our focus off the real terrorist threat, which was there, and not in Iraq.

We are destroying our force structure, which took 30 years to build. We've been funding this war dishonestly, mainly through supplemental appropriations, which minimizes responsible congressional oversight and allows the administration to duck tough questions in defending its policies. Congress has abdicated its oversight responsibility in the past four years.

It is not too late. The United States can still extricate itself honorably from an impending disaster in Iraq. The Baker-Hamilton commission gives the president a new opportunity to form a bipartisan consensus to get out of Iraq. If the president fails to build a bipartisan foundation for an exit strategy, America will pay a high price for this blunder -- one that we will have difficulty recovering from in the years ahead.


To squander this moment would be to squander future possibilities for the Middle East and the world. That is what is at stake over the next few months.

The writer is a Republican senator from Nebraska.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112401104.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,464 • Replies: 33
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:22 am
The writer is a republican senator from nebraska
A RINO that is going to run for the presidency, maybe he'll lure liberal votes cause he has sure shot himself in the foot with conservatives. Not because of this alone, he has been shooting his mouth off for a long time. He's an arrogant blowhard that loves nothing more than to say look at me, don't look at what I HAVE NOT accompolished He & McCain are cut from the same cloth.
He has tried his best to claim statesmanship while acting like an ass.
He compares this war with Vietnam, the only similarities are the media & the anti-war protesters. He should be ashamed. Why, since Haglel is sooo all knowing, did he vote in favor of this war? He & several other backstabbing neanderthals.
0 Replies
 
Mexica
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:35 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
The writer is a republican senator from nebraska
A RINO that is going to run for the presidency, maybe he'll lure liberal votes cause he has sure shot himself in the foot with conservatives. Not because of this alone, he has been shooting his mouth off for a long time. He's an arrogant blowhard that loves nothing more than to say look at me, don't look at what I HAVE NOT accompolished He & McCain are cut from the same cloth.
He has tried his best to claim statesmanship while acting like an ass.
He compares this war with Vietnam, the only similarities are the media & the anti-war protesters. He should be ashamed. Why, since Haglel is sooo all knowing, did he vote in favor of this war? He & several other backstabbing neanderthals.


Bitterness.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 01:34 am
Mexica wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
The writer is a republican senator from nebraska
A RINO that is going to run for the presidency, maybe he'll lure liberal votes cause he has sure shot himself in the foot with conservatives. Not because of this alone, he has been shooting his mouth off for a long time. He's an arrogant blowhard that loves nothing more than to say look at me, don't look at what I HAVE NOT accompolished He & McCain are cut from the same cloth.
He has tried his best to claim statesmanship while acting like an ass.
He compares this war with Vietnam, the only similarities are the media & the anti-war protesters. He should be ashamed. Why, since Haglel is sooo all knowing, did he vote in favor of this war? He & several other backstabbing neanderthals.

It's known as truth.
All you can do is make a snide remark, you can't dispute anything I posted on this. Bitter? lmao

Bitterness.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 01:41 am
There will be no "honorable" way to leave this war. It was a shameful war from the start. It's a war that couldn't be won. Hundreds of thousands are dead that needn't be. Thousands of our soldiers have fallen. We have been disgraced in the eyes of the world. That may seem harsh but that's the way it is.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 01:52 am
NickFun wrote:
There will be no "honorable" way to leave this war. It was a shameful war from the start. It's a war that couldn't be won. Hundreds of thousands are dead that needn't be. Thousands of our soldiers have fallen. We have been disgraced in the eyes of the world. That may seem harsh but that's the way it is.

Aren't all wars shameful to you as a Bhuddist?
There is an honorable way, fight to win, but the PC would have to go in order to do that.
I've said this many times, it doesn't matter now why we're there, we are, now we need to do the best we can. Fight like they mean it, by any means necessary & to hell with our popularity around the world. Who does the world look to when they need help? Not the UN, they look to us.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 10:33 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:

I've said this many times, it doesn't matter now why we're there, we are, now we need to do the best we can. Fight like they mean it, by any means necessary & to hell with our popularity around the world. Who does the world look to when they need help? Not the UN, they look to us.


That is where you are dead wrong.
It does matter why the US is there and it does matter how they got there.
Dismissing these points limits the debate to conservative talking points and dismisses the flaw in everything that the war was about since it's inception.
You can make up your own rules, it doesn't make them right.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 10:53 am
Mexica wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
The writer is a republican senator from nebraska
A RINO that is going to run for the presidency, maybe he'll lure liberal votes cause he has sure shot himself in the foot with conservatives. Not because of this alone, he has been shooting his mouth off for a long time. He's an arrogant blowhard that loves nothing more than to say look at me, don't look at what I HAVE NOT accompolished He & McCain are cut from the same cloth.
He has tried his best to claim statesmanship while acting like an ass.
He compares this war with Vietnam, the only similarities are the media & the anti-war protesters. He should be ashamed. Why, since Haglel is sooo all knowing, did he vote in favor of this war? He & several other backstabbing neanderthals.


Bitterness.


Exactly.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:16 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
I've said this many times, it doesn't matter now why we're there, we are, now we need to do the best we can. Fight like they mean it, by any means necessary & to hell with our popularity around the world. Who does the world look to when they need help? Not the UN, they look to us.


What are the objectives? I know, I know, "victory," but what does victory entail, exactly?
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:22 pm
LoneStarMadam has elsewhere advocated carpet bombing the entire country.
Victory means, evidence of a just invasion be damned and just kill all them sandn*ggers and let us get onto being concerned about more meaningful things than a few million innocent Muslims.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:37 pm
Why do you call them sandniggers candidone1? You truly are a bigot, aren't you? Slamming Christians in another thead, and now using derogatory language to describe Arabs.

You should be ashamed of yourself and seek some help.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:40 pm
You are really reaching for something to get mad at today, aren't you, McG?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:42 pm
It certainly seems that way.

Then again, I think we will be seeing a lot of angst from our Republican friends over the next few years...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:42 pm
kickycan wrote:
You are really reaching for something to get mad at today, aren't you, McG?


You want some? Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:45 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Why do you call them sandniggers candidone1? You truly are a bigot, aren't you? Slamming Christians in another thead, and now using derogatory language to describe Arabs.

You should be ashamed of yourself and seek some help.


Your attempt to derail this conversation into a discussion about me wont' stick.
If you can't decipher my perspective from that which I was ascribing to other A2K members who have in the past used the pejorative term, then you truly are more dense than I thought.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 12:47 pm
McGentrix wrote:
kickycan wrote:
You are really reaching for something to get mad at today, aren't you, McG?


You want some? Twisted Evil


Don't make me come over there, young man...
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 01:32 pm
candidone1 wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:

I've said this many times, it doesn't matter now why we're there, we are, now we need to do the best we can. Fight like they mean it, by any means necessary & to hell with our popularity around the world. Who does the world look to when they need help? Not the UN, they look to us.


That is where you are dead wrong.
It does matter why the US is there and it does matter how they got there.
Dismissing these points limits the debate to conservative talking points and dismisses the flaw in everything that the war was about since it's inception.
You can make up your own rules, it doesn't make them right.

So explain to me how the why or how we got there or screeching about it helps now? Isn't the goal to get out honorbly?
& you still complaining about the majoriyy of both houses of congress going along with the president to go to Iraq, does what to reach the goal?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 01:37 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:

I've said this many times, it doesn't matter now why we're there, we are, now we need to do the best we can. Fight like they mean it, by any means necessary & to hell with our popularity around the world. Who does the world look to when they need help? Not the UN, they look to us.


That is where you are dead wrong.
It does matter why the US is there and it does matter how they got there.
Dismissing these points limits the debate to conservative talking points and dismisses the flaw in everything that the war was about since it's inception.
You can make up your own rules, it doesn't make them right.

So explain to me how the why or how we got there or screeching about it helps now? Isn't the goal to get out honorbly?
& you still complaining about the majoriyy of both houses of congress going along with the president to go to Iraq, does what to reach the goal?


There are, of course, many different goals to achieve.

One is to leave Iraq without being chased out.

Another is finding out just how badly our Executive branch has been corrupted by liars and thieves.

I know that you don't care about the second goal, but that doesn't make it an unimportant one. And it is closely tied to the first, because you can't trust a group of liars to do the honorable thing. They wouldn't know honor if it bit them in the rear.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 02:14 pm
LSM doesn't want to hear the "screeching" regarding the what and the why as it pertains to getting into the mess. The what and the why behind the invasion have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have been inadequate reasons by any measure. There is no good to come from that conversation for conservatives like LSM.

All that's important now is winning because what is of value and what is "noble" for the conservative cause is a victory, whether victory can be measured.

It is convenient for conservatives to ignore the facts that make the road to this arbitrary victory less virtuous.

But this follows from the maxim that the positive value attributed to an end is given primacy over the means to that very end. It also conveniently makes irrelevent any discussion of any possible alternate means that may have existed prior to the invasion that would have yeilded the same result or better.
0 Replies
 
Mexica
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 02:43 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Why do you call them sandniggers candidone1? You truly are a bigot, aren't you? Slamming Christians in another thead, and now using derogatory language to describe Arabs.

You should be ashamed of yourself and seek some help.


It seems clear he was not speaking from his own point of view; of course, quotation marks would do much to assist those who are not sophisticated enough to detect sarcasm.
0 Replies
 
 

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