... So help me, Allah.

Monte Cargo wrote:

Our melting pot welcomes Germans and Japanese, which would not have been wise during the WWII years.

German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

Walter, I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass here. I realize I'm shifting gears on the subject. I nevertheless, can't help getting back to my basic amazement that five years after the most colossal act of terrorism and the worst attack on the United States, that a group of people in Michigan would elect a Muslim to Congress.

Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Monte Cargo wrote:

Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Depends on how you define "terrorism," I suppose.

But maybe the voters of Minnesota 5th congressional district were able to make the subtle distinction between the acts of one individual Muslim and the acts of a certain set of other Muslims. After all, I'm sure that you didn't criticize voters in Michigan for continuing to elect white guys even in the wake of Tim McVeigh's terrorist attack.

Monte Cargo wrote:

Walter, I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass here. I realize I'm shifting gears on the subject. I nevertheless, can't help getting back to my basic amazement that five years after the most colossal act of terrorism and the worst attack on the United States, that a group of people in Michigan would elect a Muslim to Congress.

Michigan, Minnesota -- tomato, tomahto.

Monte Cargo wrote:

Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Depends on how you define "terrorism," I suppose. But maybe the voters of Minnesota 5th congressional district were able to make the subtle distinction between the acts of one individual Muslim and the acts of a certain set of other Muslims. After all, I'm sure that you didn't criticize voters in Michigan for continuing to elect white guys even in the wake of Tim McVeigh's terrorist attack.

The basis of Drew's (later known as Noble Drew Ali) teaching held that African Americans were actually of Islamic heritage and therefore should be referred to as "Moors." Drew taught that Islam, not Christianity was the original, and therefore the correct, faith of African Americans." Ali also stated that [the terms] Negro and Black signified death and Colored signified something painted. Therefore the terms Asiatic, Moor or Moorish-American must be used. Ali taught that salvation was found by discovering national orignal and refusing to be called Negro, Black, Colored, Ethiopian, etc.".

Drew also instilled the idea of Moorish superiority over the white race. Drew continued his teachings until his mysterious death in 1929. After Drew's death, his following splintered into numerous fractions. On one side, there is John Given El who believed himself to be the reincarnation of Noble Drew, on the other there is Wallace D. Fard who also believed himself to be the reincarnation of Nobel Drew. The original followers of Drew took two diverging paths. One group followed John Givens and became the Morish Americans of the Moorish Temple of science based in Chicago, and the other group following Fard became The Nation of Islam.

Using the foundation laid by Noble Drew, the Nation of Islam was born. In 1930 in Detroit, a door to door salesman, going by the name Wallace Fard, began preaching his remedies for the problems that plagued the black community. His job as a salesman gave him easy access into the homes of blacks throughout the city. While inside the homes he began preaching his doctrine of black separatism, white evil, and Christian manipulation. He used Blacks' familiarity with the Bible as a spring board to his preaching, gradually easing into Qur'anic text.

Fard's three main concepts, which became the foundation for the NOI ideology, were "Allah is God, the white man is the devil and the so called Negroes are the Asiatic Black People, the cream of the planet earth". Fard felt that blacks would not achieve freedom, equality,and justice until they not only regained their true religion and language (Islam and Arabic) and but also gained a separate state.

Frad preached to his listeners how Christianity was the white man's religion used to enslave and subjugate the asiatic (black) man's mind. To him, the Christian faith would never serve to solve the problems that plagued the black community. In fact,it had often been used as a device to keep black subordinate. The "Christian religion was and is the master stratagem for keeping the so-called Negroes enslaved... [this] 'slave religion' taught them to love their oppressor and prey for those who persecute them". From 1930 to 1934, Fard successfully recruited 8,000 followers into his Lost-Found Nation of Islam.

One of Fard's First Chief Ministers was a man by the name of Elijah Poole. After Fard's mysterious disappearance in June of 1934, his most dedicated head minister Elijah Muhammad (formally known as Robert Pool) took over the movement. The primary reason for Elijah's devotion to Fard was that he believed Fard was God in person. In fact, Elijah is entirely responsible for the deification of Fard as well as the perpetuation of Fard's beliefs.

After Fards disappearance, Elijah established a second temple in Chicago which eventually became the main headquarters for the NOI. Elijah was very strict and authoritative in his role as head of the Nation of Islam. This strong hold over the organization even held true while Elijah was in prison serving time for draft evasion during the Second World War. While incarcerated, Elijah was able to run the NOI via giving his orders to his wife Clara and his head ministers. So even in prison, the organization never acted without his direct consent and direction. Under the leadership of Elijah Muhammad the organization took shape into the beliefs and practices the NOI is famous for such as their ideas of black racial superiority, and racial separation. Elijah remained head of the NOI until his death in 1975 when his son Wallace Muhammad took over the ranks.

Monte Cargo wrote:

Our melting pot welcomes Germans and Japanese, which would not have been wise during the WWII years.

German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

The teachings proclaim that the black man is the original man, ancestor to the entire human race, and that the white race is the result of an experiment of an evil scientist named Yacub. Approximately six thousand years ago Yacub used a recessive gene in the Black race to create the biological mutated Caucasians. These mutated Blacks were "Bleached of the essence of humanity [and] were without soul." 29 .To NOI members, "the white man is a devil by nature, absolutely unredeemable and incapable of caring about or respecting anyone who is not white [and] is the historic, persistent source of harm and injury to black people" 30 . Because of Yacub's malicious mischief, Whites would rule humanity for an extended period of time until the black race once again gains control. They believe the coming of Farad is the beginning spark to the black race regaining control. 31

<<snip>>

As a social movement, the Nation of Islam primarily has three main goals:

The United Front of Black Men
Racial Separation
Economic Separation 34 .

While a law student in 1989 and 1990, Ellison wrote several columns as Keith E. Hakim in the student newspaper, the Minnesota Daily. "The first article defended Louis Farrakhan against accusations of antisemitism "[48], defended Nation of Islam spokesman Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and spoke in the voice of a Nation of Islam advocate."[49]. The second column "called affirmative action a 'sneaky' form of compensation for slavery, suggesting instead that white Americans pay reparations to blacks,"[48]. The third suggested the creation of a separate state for black residents[50][51].

In 1995, Ellison, writing an editorial as Keith X. Ellison, stated that Farrakhan is not an anti-Semite[52][53]. The same year, Ellison was identified as a member of the Nation of Islam in the Star Tribune.[54].

In 1997, when Joanne Jackson, executive director of the Minneapolis Initiative Against Racism (MIAR), allegedly said that, "Jews are among the most racist white people", Ellison, using his religious name Mohammed, read a statement supporting her on behalf of the The Minneapolis-St. Paul Study Group of the Nations of Islam: "[We] stand by Ms. Jackson. We stand by the truth contained in the remarks attributed to her, and by her right to express her view without sanction. Here is why we support Ms. Jackson: She is correct about Minister Farrakhan. He is not a racist. He is also not an anti-Semite. This widespread and unfair practice of whites sanctioning blacks for not denouncing Minister Farrakhan represents a racist double standard, and is an impediment to any honest dialogue about race. If black people are to ever possess a collective sense of self-respect and self-determination, they must not genuflect whenever powerful whites make the unreasonable demand to denounce Minister Farrakhan. Minister Farrakhan said he did not like the tension between the black and Jewish communities, and that he was open to dialoge with any groups as long as they did not set any conditions."[55][56][49] Ellison later claimed "While some at that meeting justified her comments, I spoke out in favor of increased dialogue between the Jewish and African-American communities."[57][58]

In 1998, during his Minnesota State Legislature House campaign, as Keith Ellison-Muhammad he said he had an affiliation with the Nation of Islam, but "rejected anti-Jewish attitudes".[59][60].

And, I am sure that you know, Monte Carlo, that one of the founders of the Black Muslims, Minister Farrakhan, has, since he is for peace and tranquillity, repeatedly lobbied for the removal of the 'WHITE DEVILS".

I find it amusing that people who cry out that the voters elected him(Ellison), who, if he is a true Black Muslim, is devoted to defeat white policies which do not benefit Black Muslims in any way, are those who cried out in understandable horror and shock when racists are elected to office in Southern States.

After the voters see how Ellison comports himself, he will be voted out of office. There is no room in the US House of Representatives for anyone who espouses the beliefs of Minister Farrakhan.

About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"

Monte Cargo wrote:

About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"

I suspect that they may have brain farts similar to the ones that re-elected our militant born-again to the highest office.

mesquite wrote:

Monte Cargo wrote:

About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"

I suspect that they may have brain farts similar to the ones that re-elected our militant born-again to the highest office.

Bush is no doubt the most outspokenly Christian president we've ever had, or had in centuries, but at the end of the day, Bush hasn't given anything of particular value to the Christian community. I look at it this way: We were attacked. This isn't like Vietnam. We got hit on our own soil. What other response should we take? Would it really have been better if the president were on television, shaking his finger and still demanding an apology from Bin Laden?

Bush is no doubt the most outspokenly Christian president we've ever had, or had in centuries, but at the end of the day, Bush hasn't given anything of particular value to the Christian community. I look at it this way: We were attacked. This isn't like Vietnam. We got hit on our own soil. What other response should we take? Would it really have been better if the president were on television, shaking his finger and still demanding an apology from Bin Laden?

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1782913#1782913

. . . rather than working within the Judeo-Christian principles that have made us a beacon for freedom-loving persons around the world.