0
   

... So help me, Allah.

 
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2006 10:35 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:

Our melting pot welcomes Germans and Japanese, which would not have been wise during the WWII years.


German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

I didn't know that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 01:41 am
Monte Cargo wrote:

German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

I didn't know that.[/quote]

As published April 2006:

http://i13.tinypic.com/2uqdlyc.jpg

(Wikippedia notes 19.2 immigrant descendends from Germany, which seems to be a typo.)
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 12:35 am
Walter, I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass here. I realize I'm shifting gears on the subject. I nevertheless, can't help getting back to my basic amazement that five years after the most colossal act of terrorism and the worst attack on the United States, that a group of people in Michigan would elect a Muslim to Congress. Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 08:54 am
Monte Cargo wrote:
Walter, I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass here. I realize I'm shifting gears on the subject. I nevertheless, can't help getting back to my basic amazement that five years after the most colossal act of terrorism and the worst attack on the United States, that a group of people in Michigan would elect a Muslim to Congress.

Michigan, Minnesota -- tomato, tomahto.

Monte Cargo wrote:
Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Depends on how you define "terrorism," I suppose. But maybe the voters of Minnesota 5th congressional district were able to make the subtle distinction between the acts of one individual Muslim and the acts of a certain set of other Muslims. After all, I'm sure that you didn't criticize voters in Michigan for continuing to elect white guys even in the wake of Tim McVeigh's terrorist attack.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 05:22 pm
joefromchicago wrote:

Monte Cargo wrote:
Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Depends on how you define "terrorism," I suppose.

But maybe the voters of Minnesota 5th congressional district were able to make the subtle distinction between the acts of one individual Muslim and the acts of a certain set of other Muslims. After all, I'm sure that you didn't criticize voters in Michigan for continuing to elect white guys even in the wake of Tim McVeigh's terrorist attack.


Joe, would you stop with the common sense already.
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 09:31 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:
Walter, I'm truly not trying to be a smart ass here. I realize I'm shifting gears on the subject. I nevertheless, can't help getting back to my basic amazement that five years after the most colossal act of terrorism and the worst attack on the United States, that a group of people in Michigan would elect a Muslim to Congress.

Michigan, Minnesota -- tomato, tomahto.

Oops. A catastrophe I blame on jet lag.

Quote:
Monte Cargo wrote:
Muslims have committed, with one exception (McVeigh on the Oklahama City Federal Building), every act of terrorism against the United States that has occurred over the past thirty years. Great response...elect Muslims! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Depends on how you define "terrorism," I suppose. But maybe the voters of Minnesota 5th congressional district were able to make the subtle distinction between the acts of one individual Muslim and the acts of a certain set of other Muslims. After all, I'm sure that you didn't criticize voters in Michigan for continuing to elect white guys even in the wake of Tim McVeigh's terrorist attack.


1968 Assassination of Robert Kennedy
1979 of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran
1980s Kidnapping of Americans in London
1983 U.S. Marine Barracks blown up
1985 Hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro, one man murdered
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked in Athens, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1988 Pan Am Flight 103 bombed
1993 First Bombing of the WTC
1996 19 Americans killed at U.S. Military complex at Khobar Towers
1998 U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed
2000 U.S.S. Cole bombed
2001 WTC and Pentagon hit by four hijacked airliners, thousands killed

Yeah, Joe, stop making sense. Rolling Eyes

I'm sure that the Nazi that Minnesota might have elected in the 1940's might not be confused with Hitler or Mussolini either, but it's no better an idea in the 21st Century than it would have been to elect a Nazi in the 20th century during WWII.

I maintain my position that the cold weather undoubtedly must have frozen the brains of the Minnesota 5th Congressional District electorate.
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 10:09 pm
From: http://www.theblacknationalist.com/NOI.html

Quote:
The basis of Drew's (later known as Noble Drew Ali) teaching held that African Americans were actually of Islamic heritage and therefore should be referred to as "Moors." Drew taught that Islam, not Christianity was the original, and therefore the correct, faith of African Americans." Ali also stated that [the terms] Negro and Black signified death and Colored signified something painted. Therefore the terms Asiatic, Moor or Moorish-American must be used. Ali taught that salvation was found by discovering national orignal and refusing to be called Negro, Black, Colored, Ethiopian, etc.".

Drew also instilled the idea of Moorish superiority over the white race. Drew continued his teachings until his mysterious death in 1929. After Drew's death, his following splintered into numerous fractions. On one side, there is John Given El who believed himself to be the reincarnation of Noble Drew, on the other there is Wallace D. Fard who also believed himself to be the reincarnation of Nobel Drew. The original followers of Drew took two diverging paths. One group followed John Givens and became the Morish Americans of the Moorish Temple of science based in Chicago, and the other group following Fard became The Nation of Islam.

Using the foundation laid by Noble Drew, the Nation of Islam was born. In 1930 in Detroit, a door to door salesman, going by the name Wallace Fard, began preaching his remedies for the problems that plagued the black community. His job as a salesman gave him easy access into the homes of blacks throughout the city. While inside the homes he began preaching his doctrine of black separatism, white evil, and Christian manipulation. He used Blacks' familiarity with the Bible as a spring board to his preaching, gradually easing into Qur'anic text.

Fard's three main concepts, which became the foundation for the NOI ideology, were "Allah is God, the white man is the devil and the so called Negroes are the Asiatic Black People, the cream of the planet earth". Fard felt that blacks would not achieve freedom, equality,and justice until they not only regained their true religion and language (Islam and Arabic) and but also gained a separate state.

Frad preached to his listeners how Christianity was the white man's religion used to enslave and subjugate the asiatic (black) man's mind. To him, the Christian faith would never serve to solve the problems that plagued the black community. In fact,it had often been used as a device to keep black subordinate. The "Christian religion was and is the master stratagem for keeping the so-called Negroes enslaved... [this] 'slave religion' taught them to love their oppressor and prey for those who persecute them". From 1930 to 1934, Fard successfully recruited 8,000 followers into his Lost-Found Nation of Islam.

One of Fard's First Chief Ministers was a man by the name of Elijah Poole. After Fard's mysterious disappearance in June of 1934, his most dedicated head minister Elijah Muhammad (formally known as Robert Pool) took over the movement. The primary reason for Elijah's devotion to Fard was that he believed Fard was God in person. In fact, Elijah is entirely responsible for the deification of Fard as well as the perpetuation of Fard's beliefs.

After Fards disappearance, Elijah established a second temple in Chicago which eventually became the main headquarters for the NOI. Elijah was very strict and authoritative in his role as head of the Nation of Islam. This strong hold over the organization even held true while Elijah was in prison serving time for draft evasion during the Second World War. While incarcerated, Elijah was able to run the NOI via giving his orders to his wife Clara and his head ministers. So even in prison, the organization never acted without his direct consent and direction. Under the leadership of Elijah Muhammad the organization took shape into the beliefs and practices the NOI is famous for such as their ideas of black racial superiority, and racial separation. Elijah remained head of the NOI until his death in 1975 when his son Wallace Muhammad took over the ranks.

It's always nice to know a little background on the philosophy of the Nation of Islam, in addition to knowing that Ellison and Louis Farrakhan think alike and share the same ideals.

Those distinguishing 5th Congressional District Minnesotans must certainly be proud to have made such a wise choice for the Congressman to represent them!
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 10:19 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:

Our melting pot welcomes Germans and Japanese, which would not have been wise during the WWII years.


German Americans are the largest self-reported ethnic group in the United States :wink:

There's a huge difference between being of a particular heritage and being a part of the Nation of Islam, which is a choice.

Here's a taste of Nation of Islam philosophy, Walter:
Quote:
The teachings proclaim that the black man is the original man, ancestor to the entire human race, and that the white race is the result of an experiment of an evil scientist named Yacub. Approximately six thousand years ago Yacub used a recessive gene in the Black race to create the biological mutated Caucasians. These mutated Blacks were "Bleached of the essence of humanity [and] were without soul." 29 .To NOI members, "the white man is a devil by nature, absolutely unredeemable and incapable of caring about or respecting anyone who is not white [and] is the historic, persistent source of harm and injury to black people" 30 . Because of Yacub's malicious mischief, Whites would rule humanity for an extended period of time until the black race once again gains control. They believe the coming of Farad is the beginning spark to the black race regaining control. 31

<<snip>>

As a social movement, the Nation of Islam primarily has three main goals:

The United Front of Black Men
Racial Separation
Economic Separation 34 .

Nice, huh?

Here's some more history on Ellison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison_(politician)
Quote:
While a law student in 1989 and 1990, Ellison wrote several columns as Keith E. Hakim in the student newspaper, the Minnesota Daily. "The first article defended Louis Farrakhan against accusations of antisemitism "[48], defended Nation of Islam spokesman Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and spoke in the voice of a Nation of Islam advocate."[49]. The second column "called affirmative action a 'sneaky' form of compensation for slavery, suggesting instead that white Americans pay reparations to blacks,"[48]. The third suggested the creation of a separate state for black residents[50][51].

In 1995, Ellison, writing an editorial as Keith X. Ellison, stated that Farrakhan is not an anti-Semite[52][53]. The same year, Ellison was identified as a member of the Nation of Islam in the Star Tribune.[54].

In 1997, when Joanne Jackson, executive director of the Minneapolis Initiative Against Racism (MIAR), allegedly said that, "Jews are among the most racist white people", Ellison, using his religious name Mohammed, read a statement supporting her on behalf of the The Minneapolis-St. Paul Study Group of the Nations of Islam: "[We] stand by Ms. Jackson. We stand by the truth contained in the remarks attributed to her, and by her right to express her view without sanction. Here is why we support Ms. Jackson: She is correct about Minister Farrakhan. He is not a racist. He is also not an anti-Semite. This widespread and unfair practice of whites sanctioning blacks for not denouncing Minister Farrakhan represents a racist double standard, and is an impediment to any honest dialogue about race. If black people are to ever possess a collective sense of self-respect and self-determination, they must not genuflect whenever powerful whites make the unreasonable demand to denounce Minister Farrakhan. Minister Farrakhan said he did not like the tension between the black and Jewish communities, and that he was open to dialoge with any groups as long as they did not set any conditions."[55][56][49] Ellison later claimed "While some at that meeting justified her comments, I spoke out in favor of increased dialogue between the Jewish and African-American communities."[57][58]

In 1998, during his Minnesota State Legislature House campaign, as Keith Ellison-Muhammad he said he had an affiliation with the Nation of Islam, but "rejected anti-Jewish attitudes".[59][60].
0 Replies
 
bisca
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 01:01 pm
And, I am sure that you know, Monte Carlo, that one of the founders of the Black Muslims, Minister Farrakhan, has, since he is for peace and tranquillity, repeatedly lobbied for the removal of the 'WHITE DEVILS".

I find it amusing that people who cry out that the voters elected him(Ellison), who, if he is a true Black Muslim, is devoted to defeat white policies which do not benefit Black Muslims in any way, are those who cried out in understandable horror and shock when racists are elected to office in Southern States.

After the voters see how Ellison comports himself, he will be voted out of office. There is no room in the US House of Representatives for anyone who espouses the beliefs of Minister Farrakhan.
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Dec, 2006 10:55 pm
bisca wrote:
And, I am sure that you know, Monte Carlo, that one of the founders of the Black Muslims, Minister Farrakhan, has, since he is for peace and tranquillity, repeatedly lobbied for the removal of the 'WHITE DEVILS".

I find it amusing that people who cry out that the voters elected him(Ellison), who, if he is a true Black Muslim, is devoted to defeat white policies which do not benefit Black Muslims in any way, are those who cried out in understandable horror and shock when racists are elected to office in Southern States.

After the voters see how Ellison comports himself, he will be voted out of office. There is no room in the US House of Representatives for anyone who espouses the beliefs of Minister Farrakhan.

One might notice, as you have, that the attention is being misdirected to the debate over what volume Ellison will be swearing on. About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 06:55 pm
Monte Cargo wrote:
About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"


I suspect that they may have brain farts similar to the ones that re-elected our militant born-again to the highest office.
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 10:19 pm
mesquite wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:
About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"


I suspect that they may have brain farts similar to the ones that re-elected our militant born-again to the highest office.

Bush is no doubt the most outspokenly Christian president we've ever had, or had in centuries, but at the end of the day, Bush hasn't given anything of particular value to the Christian community. I look at it this way: We were attacked. This isn't like Vietnam. We got hit on our own soil. What other response should we take? Would it really have been better if the president were on television, shaking his finger and still demanding an apology from Bin Laden?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 10:28 pm
Monte Cargo wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:
About halfway through this thread it occurred to me; "Never mind the Koran, what does it say about these voters in Minnesota anyway, that they would actually elect a militant Muslim to high office?"


I suspect that they may have brain farts similar to the ones that re-elected our militant born-again to the highest office.

Bush is no doubt the most outspokenly Christian president we've ever had, or had in centuries, but at the end of the day, Bush hasn't given anything of particular value to the Christian community. I look at it this way: We were attacked. This isn't like Vietnam. We got hit on our own soil. What other response should we take? Would it really have been better if the president were on television, shaking his finger and still demanding an apology from Bin Laden?

We should have followed ROn Reagans example and invaded Grenada.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Jan, 2007 11:54 pm
Monte Cargo wrote:
Bush is no doubt the most outspokenly Christian president we've ever had, or had in centuries, but at the end of the day, Bush hasn't given anything of particular value to the Christian community. I look at it this way: We were attacked. This isn't like Vietnam. We got hit on our own soil. What other response should we take? Would it really have been better if the president were on television, shaking his finger and still demanding an apology from Bin Laden?

Yes, we were attacked by fundamentalist islamic militants based in Afghanistan and supported by the islamic fundamentalist Taliban regime.

There has been precious little criticism either domestically or internationally of GW Bush for the action against Al- qaeda and the Taliban.

The criticism has been for taking his eye off the ball and diverting resources from the action in Afghanistan to the
PNAC primary goal of deposing Saddam Hussein.

You appear to have swallowed the Bush spin hook, line and sinker.

This quote from Hermann Goering is appropriate to your remarks.
Quote:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1782913#1782913
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 04:43 am
What makes you say this guy is "militant"?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 08:11 am
Geeze, silly question . . . to a certain mindset, Muslim and militant are inseparable concepts.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 08:42 am
By the way, that was not to suggest that your question were not germane--it was. However, for those who think in terms of propaganda, describing all Muslims as militant is a technique. Not everyone would necessarily automatically ask the question you asked, Snood, and the diligent propagandist can therefore include the concept of militancy in the discussion if no one questions the inferential assertion that all Muslims are "guilty until proven innocent." It was a good question, and likely will not get a good answer.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 09:31 am
I got your drift, Set. And your point about the mindset and thus the environment they attempt to create for the discussion being "guilty until proved innocent", was a good one.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 10:05 am
He's still at it... this is from USA Today (editorials):


A letter I sent in early December was written in response to hundreds of e-mails from constituents upset about Rep.-elect Keith Ellison's decision to use the Quran in connection with his congressional swearing-in. Their communications followed media reports that Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat, had said that he would swear on the Quran. He repeated that at a gathering of Muslims in Detroit on Dec. 26.

My letter did not call for a religious test for prospective members of Congress, as some have charged. Americans have the right to elect any person of their choosing to represent them. I indicated to my constituents that I did not subscribe to the Quran in any way, and I intended to use the Bible in connection with my swearing-in. I also stated that the Ten Commandments and "In God We Trust" are on the wall of my office, and I have no intention of displaying the Quran in my office. That is my choice, and I stand by my position and do not apologize for it.

My letter also stated, "If American citizens don't wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Quran."

Immigration is arguably the most important issue facing the country today. At least 12 million immigrants are here illegally. And diversity visas, a program initiated in 1990 to grant visas to people from countries that had low U.S. immigration at that time, are bringing in 50,000 a year from various parts of the world, including the Middle East.

Let us remember that we were not attacked by a nation on 9/11; we were attacked by extremists who acted in the name of the Islamic religion. I believe that if we do not stop illegal immigration totally, reduce legal immigration and end diversity visas, we are leaving ourselves vulnerable to infiltration by those who want to mold the United States into the image of their religion, rather than working within the Judeo-Christian principles that have made us a beacon for freedom-loving persons around the world.



http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/01/opposing_view_s.html#more
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2007 10:11 am
snood's source wrote:
. . . rather than working within the Judeo-Christian principles that have made us a beacon for freedom-loving persons around the world.


That's pathetic. The first clause of the first amendment--Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . . --specifically derives from the experience of Europeans for centuries before the amendment was ratified that tolerance was no part of "Judeo-Chrisitan principles." I suppose one is to believe that only Jews and Christians love freedom, and are capable of loving freedom. This guy just keeps digging a deeper hole.
0 Replies
 
 

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