Modern Society and the Value of our Values

twyvel, I may be fooling myself, but I'm sure enjoying my life. c.i.

Maybe on Mars, but this is Earth, Twyvel.





What??? No pistachio?

Doggone it, Frank. I ain't playing if there ain't any spumante.

Edgar, You look more like a taquila kind of guy. c.i.

What a day, C.I. I'm really enjoying myself.

Frank wrote:




Value is a construct, a construct based for the most part on "I don't' know."

Therefore it is a pretence.




Well maybe in the pondering.......

The values of this society are the worst in history, we praise love & pity, we celebrate the sacrifice for other people, we go agaisnt our insticts.

In my opinion, Nietszche found 4 of the 5 elemental values: Comprehension, Loneliness, Perpicacity & Bravery, the other one I believe it is Selfishness

It's true that we are all insignificant, but at the same time we are really important, btw chosing to believe in a God is a sign of weakness, because it's pathetic to choose to believe in something that has never existed

Sounds like more guesswork gone amok here, Twyvel. If you flesh that out a bit, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

That may be, but if it is...

...chosing to proclaim that something has never existed (as you have) -- when there is no logical way to determine if it has existed or not -- is rather pathetic also.

If value is a construct based on "I don't know," I've sure been making alot of value judgements without me know it! LOL c.i.

My deduction is based both in what my reason, but mainly in what my senses tell me, so it's not so pathetic

The fact that you are brand new to this forum and already have found two occasions to call others posting here "pathetic" apparently because their notions of reality are different from yours -- is rather pathetic.

But in one of the other threads, you mentioned that you are a young person -- and that your youth should be taken into consideration.

I'll do that.

Perhaps you can help clear something up though. Since you are guessing that there are no gods -- why do you consider it "pathetic" when others guess there is a God?

I'm an agnostic -- and I don't know if there is a God or if there are no gods -- and I don't see enough unambiguous evidence to make a meaningful guess in either direction. But to suppose that either guess is "pathetic" really is off the wall.

I do understand you because i use to be an agnostic, but my senses make me an atheist, anyway i'm sorry if i offend, it never was my intention.

My point of view is that you can build your own values over that question, & personally I don't believe in God(s). So what i'm trying to say is that the values i mention earlier can be used without a base of a God or a lack of it.

Beside I see a sign of strength the fact that I don't need those beliefs, & live my life knowing it's path

I also would like to point out that I criticize Gods because I believe that even the simple doubt of if there's a God corrupts society.

Anyway once again sorry for my rude comments

Dux, I take it one step further than Frank; I'm a atheist. The reason I have come to this conclusion is I do not see any evidence of any gods as described by man. If god created man, who created god? It goes into circular thinking without answers. I also do not see from history and contemporary times any evidence that any religion established by man has benefited mankind. I see nature as the ultimate force. c.i.

There is nothing i can see to add to what c.i. has posted. There are no gods, no goddesses. Therefore, any "values" are human constructs, and the question of cui bono arises. My feeling is that in any system of values, the one who benefits is he or she who promulgates that system, in that his/her "moral superiority" is demonstrated by this system to which he/she adheres, but not those to whom the preaching is done.

To my many atheistic friends...

...every indication is that you are guessing there are no gods.

I do not know if there is a God or if there are no gods -- and there really does not seem to be enough unambiguous evidence to make a meaningful guess in either direction.

I suspect your guesses that there are no gods -- are not especially meaningful.

If they bring you comfort -- great.

How very intellectually condescending of you Frank--i "guess" (to use your very weighted term) that there is no easter bunny, nor tooth fairy. I would state categorically that there are no such beings, but i would not wish to unnecessarily offend your determinism.

Yes Setanta

And I'm sure you also guess there are no purple money changers on one of the moons of Saturn.

That kind of argument is constantly used by atheists to pooh-pooh the agnostic argument that we do not know if there are gods or not.

BOTTOM LINE:

The reality may be that existence is a function of a single entity God. The reality may also be that existence is devoid of any gods. The reality may be that "reality" is so different from anything we can possibly imagine -- that anything we think about reality is not appreciably different from what an ant might think about the cosmos.

Theists want to propose their thoughts and guesses about reality in a way that makes it seem they are talking about what they KNOW.

Atheists want to propose their thoughts and guesses about reality in a way that makes it seem they are talking about what they KNOW.

I am an agnostic -- and I acknowledge that I do not know the nature of reality -- and I acknowldge that any guesses I make about it are almost laughable.

If you consider that intellectually condescending, Setanta -- too bad for you. It shows a deficiency in your logic that is not evident from your usual excellent perceptions of life.

Sesanta, the moral systems are either really close to a religion or a opposition to a Religion or a former system. The reason I don't like the Christian based laws(not all laws, only the ones which include compassion) because they make the law systems weak, & as a consecuence the society weak.

I also would like to add that the humans like have a simple & a false life, so to explain the natural phenomenons they invented the Gods, so when they find that they didn't control that natural phenomenon they start to lose importance, an example would be that the goddesses where more important because ancients believed the women were the only ones who had a determing role on the reproduction, but when they discovered the importance of the men on the reproduction the goddesses lost a big part of importance. So when people learn to live without that consolation that are Gods, they'll loose it's importance

Frank, My belief as a atheist is a conclusion, not a guess. I know for certain that any god imagined by man does not exist. That "is" my reality. c.i.