2
   

What ABout Saddam

 
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:28 am
old europe wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
I'm not surprised that you blame America, it's par for the course for some, including you, apparently.


I blame America for being in the middle of a mess, as result of a war that America started?

<shrugs>

Yes, I guess I do. I would have blamed the USSR for ending up in the mess that Afghanistan was as a result for going into Afghanistan, too. Do you think that is illogical?


LoneStarMadam wrote:
Of course I know there's more than one action thatt could be taken in Iraq, however, no matter what's done, short of cutting & running, you & others with your views will still grouse.


No. In fact, I have often argued against leaving. My take on the issue is: you break it, you own it.


LoneStarMadam wrote:
Then if we should leave & are attacked again, who will you blame?


Most likely the terrorists.

Wars are messy, no matter where they are or why there is a war. you break it, you own it, no argument there, so lets fix it by winning it.
If you would blame the terrorists for any further attacks on the US, then why aren't you blaming them for the last 8 attacks against us?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:30 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Wars are messy, no matter where they are or why there is a war. you break it, you own it, no argument there, so lets fix it by winning it.


Define "winning".


LoneStarMadam wrote:
If you would blame the terrorists for any further attacks on the US, then why aren't you blaming them for the last 8 attacks against us?


Where did you get that from?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:32 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Wars are messy, no matter where they are or why there is a war.


Oh, and by the way: of course wars are messy. The more to blame those who start a war.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:35 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
What happens if we leave immediately? You believe that the Osamas of the world won't follow our troops home? Are we prepared for that? If we're kicked out, hey, that's it, nothing we can do about it then except hunker down & wait.


Short of boarding the same C-130's that our troops would be boarding, how do you think "the Osamas of the world" will follow our troops home? Osama never set foot in the US when al Qaeda carried out its attacks on the US. The way the security apparatus has been operating in the US, any Easterner from a Muslim country who raises the slightest suspicion is quickly 'disappeared' to a country that outsources "interrogation" for the US.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:39 am
old europe wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
I'm not surprised that you blame America, it's par for the course for some, including you, apparently.


I blame America for being in the middle of a mess, as result of a war that America started?

<shrugs>

Yes, I guess I do. I would have blamed the USSR for ending up in the mess that Afghanistan was as a result for going into Afghanistan, too. Do you think that is illogical?


LoneStarMadam wrote:
Of course I know there's more than one action thatt could be taken in Iraq, however, no matter what's done, short of cutting & running, you & others with your views will still grouse.


No. In fact, I have often argued against leaving. My take on the issue is: you break it, you own it.


LoneStarMadam wrote:
Then if we should leave & are attacked again, who will you blame?


Most likely the terrorists.

This is where I got that OE.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:40 am
Why would you assume that OE does not blame the terrorists for previous attacks on the United States?

The point, which you will never get, is that the Iraqis were not responsible for those attacks on the United States, which is germane in a thread about Saddam.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 10:42 am
InfraBlue wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
What happens if we leave immediately? You believe that the Osamas of the world won't follow our troops home? Are we prepared for that? If we're kicked out, hey, that's it, nothing we can do about it then except hunker down & wait.


Short of boarding the same C-130's that our troops would be boarding, how do you think "the Osamas of the world" will follow our troops home? Osama never set foot in the US when al Qaeda carried out its attacks on the US. The way the security apparatus has been operating in the US, any Easterner from a Muslim country who raises the slightest suspicion is quickly 'disappeared' to a country that outsources "interrogation" for the US.

They boarded flights heading to the US, 20 of them, not an army, but they sure managed to take down a big old complex, huh.
C-130s? I don't believe that our guys are traveling to & from the ME on "The lump", they travel mostly by civillian contract planes & have done so since Vietnam. Some travel on the C-141 as well.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 11:02 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:

They boarded flights heading to the US, 20 of them, not an army, but they sure managed to take down a big old complex, huh.
C-130s? I don't believe that our guys are traveling to & from the ME on "The lump", they travel mostly by civillian contract planes & have done so since Vietnam. Some travel on the C-141 as well.


So, you think the terrorists would be boarding the same civilian flights along with our troops if we were to bring them back.

O-kay
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 11:53 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
parados wrote:
We are there. One thing about being there.

You don't solve a problem using the same thinking that created the problem in the first place. (Einstien)

Continuing to promote that same boneheaded thinking that got us there is a recipe for continuing the disaster. Until you recognize the thinking that caused the problem we won't solve the problem of our being in Iraq

Well, that's simple, lets just leave then, 'k?

The same thinking that created the problem won't solve it. What part of that statement don't you get?

OE has already pointed out that simplistic thinking created the problem. The other thing that created it was failure to plan. Failing to plan now isn't helping any more than it did then.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 01:49 pm
Your question has been answered, LoneStarMadam. Very Happy

November 26, 2006 ( Los Angeles Times )

Jonathan Chait: Bring back Saddam Hussein

Quote:
Restoring the dictator to power may give Iraqis the jolt of authority they need. Have a better solution?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 02:45 pm
Hey, Nancy Pelosi just might invite Johnathan to have a chat, she , Murtha, & Johnathan. Very Happy
Seriously, I don't have a problem with Johnathan sayig that, at least he's honest.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 02:45 pm
Hey, Nancy Pelosi just might invite Johnathan to have a chat, she , Murtha, & Johnathan. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 03:01 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Hey, Nancy Pelosi just might invite Johnathan to have a chat, she , Murtha, & Johnathan. Very Happy
Seriously, I don't have a problem with Johnathan sayig that, at least he's honest.


He had actually made a fair point you know. Can you think of anything better to solve the Iraq problem ?

From the LATimes article :
Quote:
Restoring the expectation of order in Iraq will take some kind of large-scale psychological shock. The Iraqi elections were expected to offer that shock, but they didn't. The return of Saddam Hussein - a man every Iraqi knows, and whom many of them fear - would do the trick.

The disadvantages of reinstalling Hussein are obvious, but consider some of the upside. He would not allow the country to be dominated by Iran, which is the United States' major regional enemy, a sponsor of terrorism and an instigator of warfare between Lebanon and Israel. Hussein was extremely difficult to deal with before the war, in large part because he apparently believed that he could defeat any U.S. invasion if it came to that. Now he knows he can't. And he'd probably be amenable because his alternative is death by hanging.

I know why restoring a brutal tyrant to power is a bad idea. Somebody explain to me why it's worse than all the others.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 03:13 pm
Zippo wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Hey, Nancy Pelosi just might invite Johnathan to have a chat, she , Murtha, & Johnathan. Very Happy
Seriously, I don't have a problem with Johnathan sayig that, at least he's honest.


He had actually made a fair point you know. Can you think of anything better to solve the Iraq problem ?

From the LATimes article :
Quote:
Restoring the expectation of order in Iraq will take some kind of large-scale psychological shock. The Iraqi elections were expected to offer that shock, but they didn't. The return of Saddam Hussein - a man every Iraqi knows, and whom many of them fear - would do the trick.

The disadvantages of reinstalling Hussein are obvious, but consider some of the upside. He would not allow the country to be dominated by Iran, which is the United States' major regional enemy, a sponsor of terrorism and an instigator of warfare between Lebanon and Israel. Hussein was extremely difficult to deal with before the war, in large part because he apparently believed that he could defeat any U.S. invasion if it came to that. Now he knows he can't. And he'd probably be amenable because his alternative is death by hanging.

I know why restoring a brutal tyrant to power is a bad idea. Somebody explain to me why it's worse than all the others.

I am shocking myself here, but, you're right, the guy does make excellent sense & I haven't heard anything better.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 03:59 pm
Maybe reinstalling Saddam isn't the answer, but it is clear that we should install some sort of dictator in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 04:03 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Maybe reinstalling Saddam isn't the answer, but it is clear that we should install some sort of dictator in Iraq.

I doubt very much that it'll be saddam, he has a date with the hangman.
I think his punishment should be to allow the people that he killed & mamed family members should have their timewith him. have it in an open arena, allow the world to watch.
Apparently Iraq does need some sort of boogie man though.
0 Replies
 
pararover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 10:08 am
Maybe....
But that will certainly not be G W Bush
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:20 pm
pararover wrote:
Maybe....
But that will certainly not be G W Bush

I certainly hope not.
0 Replies
 
pararover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 09:23 am
Now that Saddam's dead, I guess GWB will be able to sleep better, coz he can have all the oil in Iraq for himself without anybody nearby bothering at all.

What kind of a world are we living in? A tyrant gets killed by another crook, but its only the common innocent folk that have to pay the price. And the UN is a mute spectator.

Do people in Iraq have a better life now? What has the Coalition of the Willing done for them? Are there more and better schools and hospitals in Iraq now? Do the people have the basic necessities of life, namely, food, clothing and shelter?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 10:56 pm
Re: What ABout Saddam
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Should he have been left to wantonly kill & maim thousands of Iraqis, his sons to rape & pillage? Should saddam be put back in power?
If yes to these questions, why?
If no, why?
Will you trust the Baker/Hamilton Commission report?


Er, um, uh, madam. Saddam is dead.
0 Replies
 
 

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