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Alexandr Litvenenko killed by polonium 210!

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 03:44 pm
Hmm, Brown just made his first official visit to a foreign country to .... Merkel, instead of of Bush :wink:
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2007 10:43 pm
Cold war diplomacy is back says The Guardian.

Even during the cold war I've thought these tit-for-tat expulsions childish.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 06:13 am
there have been one or two "noises" from the British govt signalling a "cooling" of the special relationship with the US. Apparantly we are still shoulder to shoulder with our American allies but no longer joined at the hip.

Interesting that Brown went to see Angela first. but not surprising he didnt go to Moscow.

The radioactive poisoning of Litvenenko was incredibly serious. But in international affairs like you have to recognise power politics and who is in the driving seat. And its not our new boy wonder millibrand at the Foreign office.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Tue 17 Jul, 2007 06:20 am
the London Stockmarket is expecting the Russian response to be equally "measured".

Then back to business as usual.
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georgeob1
 
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Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 03:02 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
there have been one or two "noises" from the British govt signalling a "cooling" of the special relationship with the US. Apparantly we are still shoulder to shoulder with our American allies but no longer joined at the hip.
I don't think that anyone in the U.S. Defense establishment seriously considered that we were "joined at the hip" (or even "shoulder to shoulder") with the British at any time since perhaps the Korean War. The "Special Relationship" mostly involved the sharing of nuclear weapons technology, a practice that started during WWII and, to a limited degree, continues today. Beyond that there were several long-standing disputes between the U.S. and the UK during the post WWII years. most notably involving the end of colonialism and the US intervention in Vietnam.

Though it is certainly a hot political issue in Great Britain, their military involvement in Iraq is not particularly significant in terms of numbers or mission. The relative social & economic burdens are hardly comparable. Based on what I have heard from friends serving there, I would not describe the relations of our forces there as particularly close, much less "special".

Steve 41oo wrote:
The radioactive poisoning of Litvenenko was incredibly serious. But in international affairs like you have to recognise power politics and who is in the driving seat. And its not our new boy wonder millibrand at the Foreign office.
I agree it was serious - if true, a political assasination carried out in a foreign country.

It appears to me that the Western European countries are a bit cowed by Putin's belligerence, while the Eastern European countries, perhaps motivated by more direct memories, are more determined to resist. I think the German gas pipeline under the Baltic and bypassing Belarus, Ukraine, and Poland is an interesting example of this, as are the different attitudes in the East and West towards NATO. It is not always childish to decisively reject bad behavior - even with a gesture. Similarly, it is not always adult behavior to rationalize mere acquiescence by rejecting such gestures.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:07 pm
Szeve, any idea why the other two Russians are accused of ... whatever?
They could have done it as well; at least, they should be interrogated.


(That would reduce the "diplomatic" crew by eight more.)
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 04:53 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Szeve, any idea why the other two Russians are accused of ... whatever?
They could have done it as well; at least, they should be interrogated.


(That would reduce the "diplomatic" crew by eight more.)
Lugovoi seems to be the main suspect. Not too sure who the other two russians are. Of course Lugovoi blames MI6 and the British, saying the Russians were set up. If it was renegade agents from the KGB FSB, I dont think we would ask for their extradition if we thought Russia would actually comply. Only an extremely high source could have supplied the radioactive polonium. We would effectively be accusing the Russian government of an act of nuclear warfare against London. Nobody wants to go there. Better everyone huffs and puffs and a few diplomats get sent home.

Just watched Brown/Sarkozy in Paris. They're going to save the planet, apparantly.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 07:52 am
They want to go for dafur, Darkozy wants to talk with Brown before EU-summits to get him on his line (wasn't there a 'troika' suggested years ago already? Ah, yes, by the liberal Schröder) - but nothing about Putin/Russia so far, as far as I noticed.


The other two easily could have done it or at least helped doing it - and should have been inerrogated as well, I think.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 08:24 am
(interesting that Brown and Sarkozy both thought China had a role to play in Darfur. Why? Well there is oil there, and the Chinese have done a deal with the Sudanese govt.)

Russia. Just imagine if it was the other way around. An enemy of the British government poisoned with Po210 supplied by British govt and leaving traces all over Moscow and in the plane from London. Britain refuses to hand over the chief suspect because he works for MI6. How would the Russians react?
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 03:08 pm
Well, what can you expect from a meeting where the two met for just over an hour at the Elysée Palace, besides those two topics Darfur and the environment?
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 03:52 pm
perhaps they could spend the last 50 minutes discussing drugs in sport.

Nicky was just back from the Montpelier stage of the Tour de France, shook hands with stage winner (forgot who) so there should be some traces.

Meanwhile how are you coping in Germany without tv coverage because of naughty T mobile man (again)?
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 03:54 pm
Mrs Walter usually watches it on Eurosport the comments were funnier than on public tb, she says. (They didn't stop reporting live.)
Besides that, a private station bought the rights now.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 04:01 pm
well I've enjoyed the tour ...

it reminds me of holidays in France

trying to get Mrs S to enjoy it too..its cheaper than going there.

Last day of term today. Bottle of Champagne. and a wine and another...someone now well asleep.
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ossobuco
 
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Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 04:57 pm
Still listening. An old le Carre reader, oh, and just an older person, I don't trust anybody no how, no way, not even the already dead. Except people like Politskaya, and cohorts. Usually.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2007 03:23 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Still listening. An old le Carre reader, oh, and just an older person, I don't trust anybody no how, no way, not even the already dead. Except people like Politskaya, and cohorts. Usually.
you are wise not to trust anybody. I dont trust myself.

So Stalin said.
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georgeob1
 
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Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 01:02 pm
Probably good advice. I understand former German Chancellor Schroeder (who authorized the Baltic gas pipeline directly to Germany is doing quite well in his consulting/directing contract with Gazprom.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 01:14 pm
My I only add that a German chancellor dosn't have the powers of an US president. Schröder had nothing "athorised" but the approval procederes fr the permit are still going on the German states the piline passes.

It's going to be built by a consortium, btw, Gazprom, Winthershall and E.ON Ruhrgas.
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georgeob1
 
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Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 06:30 pm
I doubt very much that the pipeline project would have gone forward without the Chancellor's active support. This was a divisive act with respect to Germany's EU partner in Poland, and the political repurcussions from that are not yet over. Moreover it was a significant victory in Putin's program to use Russia's natural resources to divide and dominate the European states. However, Schroeder apperars to have been paid well for his services.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 11:33 pm
When you say so.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
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Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 12:57 am
I've come late to the party I know and I admit I have not read the previous posts.

Anyone comment, though, on the feckless response by the UK to a state sponsored ( Russian) assassination within its borders?

What does it mean for any sovereign state to, effectively, allow such actions?
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