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Alexandr Litvenenko killed by polonium 210!

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 10:52 am
And, the Atomic Weapons Establishment has traced the source, see the second page in this link -

Reuter's article
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:55 am
from the reuter's article :
"British media reported on Friday that scientists at the country's Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE) had traced the source of the polonium to a nuclear power plant in Russia.

The AWE, the body that provides warheads for Britain's nuclear arsenal, was not immediately available for comment.

The head of Russia's state atomic energy agency Rosatom, Sergei Kiriyenko, told the government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta that Russia produces only 8 grams of Polonium 210 a month. He said all of it goes to U.S. companies through a single authorised supplier."
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i'm wondering why the u.s. would import polonium 210 from russia ?
could it be possible that it would have been taken by courier (hand-luggage) onboard the planes ?
i have read that couriers are carrying all kinds of unusual items in hand-luggage between countries . usual the couriers have no idea what they are carrying . in one article i read , it was stated that couriers receive their "luggage" after they have cleared security and just before boarding , and upon arrival they hand over their "luggage" immediately to an agent before they clear customs .
strange things are happening , better not to think too much about it .
hbg
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 03:17 pm
And now the wife...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4372709.html

Scaramella's dosage now said in Reuter's to be quite a bit lower than Livkinenko's.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:23 pm
hamburger wrote:

i'm wondering why the u.s. would import polonium 210 from russia ?


Because they have a large underutilized nuclear establishment and can produce it at low cost. In addition (and I don't know if this a factor with resopect to this particular nuclide) the U.S. government, out of security and proliferation concerns, goes out of its way to support the economic employment of Russian nuclear laboratories and enrichment facilities.

I am curious to know by what means the British scientists could identify the particular source of the polonium allegedly in Russia. Prtesumably this must be the result of trace quantities of some other nuclide unique to some particular reactor or high energy beam facility. However I can't think of what that might be.

One of the problems associated with the public (or rather newsmedia) frenzy over the polonium is that radioactive materials can be easily and cheaply detected in very minute quantities. The best and most expensive scanning devices can, at best detectt a tumor or neoplasm composed of millions of cells, each composed of more millions of molecules, each composed of several atoms. For a few hundred dollars one can purchase a light hand held device trhat will detect the radioactive decay of just a few atoms - and also the energy of the decay product which identifies the source material. This is well outside the range of human experience or intuition in any other field of activity.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:50 pm
Listening. You can assume I'm slow on the science but not an entire dolt. In the meantime, I off on comments about the mother and father of Scaramella.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Dec, 2006 10:56 am
George about the source, I dont know either but I heard that each place where polonium is made produces it with a characteristic signature. It might be trace elements, or the ratio between trace elements or between Po210 and some other isotope of polonium.

Hamburger, Po is really easy to smuggle. It gives off no detectable radiation inside a glass phial, and you only need a tiny bit to do a lot of damage.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Dec, 2006 01:08 pm
Questions pop up about Scaramella -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,1962356,00.html
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Dec, 2006 08:24 pm
...TIMESONLINE...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Dec, 2006 08:29 pm
Nice thick soup now..

(I didn't know about Lugovoi.)

So, where is Le Carre for commentary?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Dec, 2006 11:56 pm
thick soup turning to porridge..

now the victim may have been blackmailer -

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1962759,00.html
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kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Dec, 2006 06:07 am
ossobuco wrote:
Nice thick soup now..

(I didn't know about Lugovoi.)

So, where is Le Carre for commentary?


This is all fascinating stuff. Thanks for the links, osso.

I heard Le Carre on a BBC podcast saying that this is exactly typical of KGB behaviour and commenting that the same methods and people and ethics exist now in the FSB as existed in the days of the KGB.

I don't mean to name-drop but Le Carre's son is a friend of a friend and I got to meet the author (real name David Cornwell) over a glass of champagne at his house at New Years a couple of years ago. He is a fascinating man and I would recommend looking up biographical information about him, if you get a chance.

He writes from what was personal experience - apparently he was involved in liaison with spies in East Germany in the 50s/60s, having learned perfect German as a child/teenager in Switzerland, somehow connected with the fact that his father was a con-man (British). I can't quite remember how it all fitted together.

KP
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Dec, 2006 07:16 am
<following along the plotline with horrified fascination>
0 Replies
 
plumbunt
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 02:09 am
Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko
Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko


On Friday, a post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko was held. Don't you find it suspicious that the results were right away classified? It looks like Scotland Yard does not want some new mind-blowing information get to the public before they find a way to handle it. As for me, I think that the examination proved what was obvious - Litvinenko died after he was exposed with lethal gamma rays of polonium-210 at some so far unknown place which is presumably a confidential radiological laboratory in the London outskirts that Chechen network uses to make a "dirty bomb" at. After the exposure, Litvinenko was brought back to London in the Mercedes that belongs to Chechen leader Zakaev. I make this assumption because his car was added to the list of 12 places of London contaminated with polonium-210. Therefore, the results of examination sustain a theory that points out Litvinenko's close co-operation with Chechen network and his assistance in obtaining polonium 210 for a dirty bomb. When the bomb was finished, Zakaev ordered to make away with Litvinenko by some means or other that would put under suspicion Russian president Putin. It was very convenient to murder Litvinenko because he was a very well known critic of Russian president. Surely, British authorities would not like this truth come out, that's why they are shadowboxing. This information will once again discredit British authorities in terms of their decision to grant political asylum and residence permit to Zakaev. If they had extradited him when Moscow enquired for it, today there would be no polonium-210 in London, no Litvinenko's mysterious death and no dirty bomb that must be somewhere in London ready to go off!
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 02:14 am
Re: Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko
plumbunt wrote:
Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko


On Friday, a post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko was held. Don't you find it suspicious that the results were right away classified?....!


Not really.

Scotland Yard probably don't want too much information to be released at this moment in time, as it may severely hinder their enquiries.

If they gave out the precise details of what they now know, it would give the perpetrator(s) a good idea of how the enquiry is progressing, or how it is likely to progress.
Best to keep them in the dark about what is known, IMO.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 02:24 am
Re: Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko
plumbunt wrote:
it. As for me, I think that the examination proved what was obvious - Litvinenko died after he was exposed with lethal gamma rays of polonium-210 at some so far unknown place which is presumably a confidential radiological laboratory in the London outskirts that Chechen network uses to make a "dirty bomb" at.

What utter twaddle.

After the exposure, Litvinenko was brought back to London in the Mercedes that belongs to Chechen leader Zakaev. I make this assumption because his car was added to the list of 12 places of London contaminated with polonium-210. Therefore, the results of examination sustain a theory that points out Litvinenko's close co-operation with Chechen network and his assistance in obtaining polonium 210 for a dirty bomb. When the bomb was finished, Zakaev ordered to make away with Litvinenko by some means or other that would put under suspicion Russian president Putin. It was very convenient to murder Litvinenko because he was a very well known critic of Russian president. Surely, British authorities would not like this truth come out, that's why they are shadowboxing. This information will once again discredit British authorities in terms of their decision to grant political asylum and residence permit to Zakaev. If they had extradited him when Moscow enquired for it, today there would be no polonium-210 in London, no Litvinenko's mysterious death and no dirty bomb that must be somewhere in London ready to go off!

I think you've been reading too many Dan Brown novels, personally.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 01:31 pm
I think Polonium emits alpha rays, not gamma...
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Dec, 2006 05:23 pm
the CBC reports :
"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - No luck shopping for that hard-to-buy-for science hobbyist in the family? The rare isotope suspected to have felled former KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko is surprisingly easy to buy - in fact, for US$69, it's a mouse click away.

The polonium-210 you can get online from Sandia Park, N.M.-based United Nuclear is available to the general public in 0.1 microcurie units, an invisibly tiny amount that's exempt from federal licensing restrictions, according the company's website."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

while the amounts that are being offered are very small quantities , i wonder if larger quantities are available "by special order" Shocked ?
i wouldn't be surprised if polonium is available for those willing to pay the right price ?
the pakistani scientist who "gave" nuclear material to iran does not seem to have suffered .
imo if someone is willing to pay , you can usually get what you want .
hbg


source :
...BUY YOUR POLONIUM 210 ON THE INTERNET ... CHEAP ! ...
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 04:06 am
Re: Results of post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko
Lord Ellpus wrote:
plumbunt wrote:
it. As for me, I think that the examination proved what was obvious - Litvinenko died after he was exposed with lethal gamma rays of polonium-210 at some so far unknown place which is presumably a confidential radiological laboratory in the London outskirts that Chechen network uses to make a "dirty bomb" at.

What utter twaddle.

After the exposure, Litvinenko was brought back to London in the Mercedes that belongs to Chechen leader Zakaev. I make this assumption because his car was added to the list of 12 places of London contaminated with polonium-210. Therefore, the results of examination sustain a theory that points out Litvinenko's close co-operation with Chechen network and his assistance in obtaining polonium 210 for a dirty bomb. When the bomb was finished, Zakaev ordered to make away with Litvinenko by some means or other that would put under suspicion Russian president Putin. It was very convenient to murder Litvinenko because he was a very well known critic of Russian president. Surely, British authorities would not like this truth come out, that's why they are shadowboxing. This information will once again discredit British authorities in terms of their decision to grant political asylum and residence permit to Zakaev. If they had extradited him when Moscow enquired for it, today there would be no polonium-210 in London, no Litvinenko's mysterious death and no dirty bomb that must be somewhere in London ready to go off!

I think you've been reading too many Dan Brown novels, personally.


I think our friend may be "From Russia with Love" Confused
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 08:42 am
On David Cornwell, Kitchenpete, I knew that was his name, but didn't know if others would recognize that. Neat that you got to meet him.
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 09:11 am
ossobuco wrote:
On David Cornwell, Kitchenpete, I knew that was his name, but didn't know if others would recognize that. Neat that you got to meet him.


Yes, that's what I thought! On the BBC he was introduced by his pseudonym "John Le Carre", in fact, as everybody recognises that name.

KP
0 Replies
 
 

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