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Alexandr Litvenenko killed by polonium 210!

 
 
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 09:58 am
This is just unbelievable.

To get hold of polonium 210 you have to have nuclear warhead manufacturing facilities.

The story has changed so many times.

What about the mysterious objects found in his gut. Information was leaked from the hospital straight to the BBC who broadcast it, now all further reference appears to be censored.

British government emergency Cobra committee goes into secret session.

What the **** is going on.

Its a shocking and terrible death, but is this country also a victim of nuclear attack?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 10,726 • Replies: 162
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 10:48 am
It is baffling. The only people who could have procured such a material would be a huge government with access to nuclear resources. You would think that if Putin was responsible he would not have made his guilt so clear.
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smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 10:56 am
Did you see the interview re: Putin, by the murdered journalist Anna Politkovskaya?

The mere fact the BBC is censoring is very worrying!

Obvious Government ordered media back-out of some kind going on...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 11:02 am
I've been following it. Brrrrrrrr!!!!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:24 pm
NickFun wrote:
It is baffling. The only people who could have procured such a material would be a huge government with access to nuclear resources. You would think that if Putin was responsible he would not have made his guilt so clear.
Indeed. But then if it was not a state agency...i.e. a non state agency that has access to polonium 210 in sufficient quantities to kill someone...isnt that even more worrying?
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martybarker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:29 pm
I didn't hear anything about a foreign object in his gut. Tell me more!
BTW, was this material strong enough to be radioactive to his caregivers??
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:35 pm
martybarker wrote:

BTW, was this material strong enough to be radioactive to his caregivers??


The BBC:
Quote:
The Health Protection Agency has urged anyone else who visited the same London hotel or sushi bar on 1 November, when he met his contacts, to get in touch. ... Radioactive traces have been found at the Itsu restaurant in Piccadilly and the Millennium Hotel's Pine Bar. ... the risk of contamination to other people is low.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:36 pm
martybarker wrote:
I didn't hear anything about a foreign object in his gut. Tell me more!
BTW, was this material strong enough to be radioactive to his caregivers??


Possibly, as I read.

It can be shielded by next to nothing outside the body, and has a half life of only 138 days, but can apparently contaminate by sweat/urine etc once in the body.

His family are being tested, as will health workers who attended him...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:38 pm
I saw a report denying that there were three objects in his 'gut' (I forget which word they used), but no original mention of the objects.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:45 pm
martybarker wrote:
I didn't hear anything about a foreign object in his gut. Tell me more!
BTW, was this material strong enough to be radioactive to his caregivers??
On Wednesday morning someone from the hospital phoned the BBC to say the X ray of the intestine revealed 3 small clearly artifical objects, about the size of 2 pence pieces. That is about 2 cm diameter. One in the stomach, one in the intestine and one in the colon.

That was broadcast on the BBC Today Progamme at about 7.20 am.

One of these peculiar objects did not look like the rest, apparantly because it had ruptured.

That was the only mention of this. Nothing on BBC or any newpaper that I read afterwards.

Polonium 210 is a stong alpha particle emitter. Alpha particles do not travel more than a few millimeters in air, but do great damage on a molecular scale near to the source, i.e. can give rise to free radicals and damage cells iin the body once ingested. Polonium does not give off beta or gamma radiation which could be detected by a geiger counter.

As I said this really is the most bizarre killing, if that s what it is, I have ever come across. And one of the most distressing and painful for the victim and his loved ones.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 02:50 pm
According to a report in today's The Observer, polonium is offered for sale by several companies in the USA on the internet for is little as $69.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 03:00 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
According to a report in today's The Observer, polonium is offered for sale by several companies in the USA on the internet for is little as $69.
for how much?

We are talking about a specific isotope here, polonium 210. Thats not available via the internet...or if it is please tell me where and how much.

Po 210 has a half life of only about 140 days so its usefulness is time limited.

To kill livenenko would need production and admistering of enough radioactive polonium within a few days of its manufacuture. Only an organisatiion with access to very sophisticated technology could do this.

It could be a state that makes nuclear weapons, or if not its some very frightening non state organisation.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 03:05 pm
The Observer, 26.11.2006, page 2:

http://i7.tinypic.com/2it3rr8.jpghttp://i10.tinypic.com/4796qna.jpg
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 03:50 pm
One report I read in a newspaper today, indicated that it was probably administered via a small aerosol spray, directly onto the sushi.

Also, the last person to have met up with him (in the sushi restaurant) was "security expert", Mario Scaramella, who was also a specialist in nuclear waste disposal.

About Scaramella....a small "bullet" headline..."He knows all about the KGB and nuclear materials, but his university doesn't have a record of him". Weird or what.

Interesting, if true......
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 03:58 pm
There's a man who leads a life of danger
To everyone he meets he stays a stranger
With every move he makes another chance he takes
Odds are he won't live to see tomorrow

Secret agent man, secret agent man
They've given you a number and taken away your name

Beware of pretty faces that you find
A pretty face can hide an evil mind
Ah, be careful what you say
Or you'll give yourself away
Odds are you won't live to see tomorrow

Secret agent man, secret agent man
They've given you a number and taken away your name

------ lead guitar ------

Secret agent man, secret agent man
They've given you a number and taken away your name

Swingin' on the Riviera one day
And then layin' in the Bombay alley next day
Oh no, you let the wrong word slip
While kissing persuasive lips
The odds are you won't live to see tomorrow

Secret agent man, secret agent man
They've given you a number and taken away your name

Secret agent man
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 04:01 pm
Is that to the tune of "Transformer Man" By Neil Young?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 08:24 am
Lord Ellpus wrote:
One report I read in a newspaper today, indicated that it was probably administered via a small aerosol spray, directly onto the sushi.

Also, the last person to have met up with him (in the sushi restaurant) was "security expert", Mario Scaramella, who was also a specialist in nuclear waste disposal.

About Scaramella....a small "bullet" headline..."He knows all about the KGB and nuclear materials, but his university doesn't have a record of him". Weird or what.

Interesting, if true......
If this story was fiction...it would never get a publisher. It was Scaramella who was interviewed by John Humphrys on BBC radio 4 when he was asked specifically about the mysterious objects found in Litvinenko's body. He denied all knowledge. I have looked and listened for any subsequent reference to the "three 2 pence sized packages"...there has been none. And I doubt there ever will be. In a few months time I will have convinced myself I "mis-heard" it no doubt.

Polonium is interesting stuff. Its a strong alpha source but weak emitter of gamma rays. (Hence they couldnt detect radiation with a geiger counter). A very dilute concentration is used as an anti static coating on electronic components, but to obtain pure Po requires resources beyond the means of any individual. Po 210 ionises the air around it and hence it gives off a faint blue light. It also mysteriously "migrates" all over the place... no wonder the restaurant is closed.

The Curies first isolated it in the course of their work on pitchblend (containing uranium ore). Chadwick used it with beryllium to produce a neutron source, and as far as i know its still used in the initiator assembly of nuclear warheads...but then of course all that his highly classified...

Its interesting that all accusing fingers are immediately pointing east but the UK and others have sources of Po. Of course if they can analyse some, it might indicate its source so all will be revealed in time (fat chance of that Laughing )

I think this poor man is most likely an innocent victim in some despicable game designed to weaken the opposition. And I wouldnt be surprised if oil and gas figure prominently.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 10:53 am
Timothy BANCROFT-HINCHEY in Pravda wrote:
How can any British official have any meeting with any Russian official and look them in the eye when they speak about terrorism but shelter a Chechen warlord? The same person who accuses the Russians of slaughtering the children of Beslan. Like the rest of his family, he is either mad, high on drugs or else a paranoid schizophrenic, in which case he would be better off in healthcare in Moscow than released on the streets of London, a city fraught with random violence.

Nobody likes to see Mr. Litvinenko ill. But to blame Vladimir Putin... how about the fairies at the end of the garden, or Saddam Hussein's WMD?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 11:05 am
So, didn't Litvinenko go to the hotel first? There are traces of polonium 210 at the hotel.. so I'm wondering about the apparent sushi application. All very curious,
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 11:14 am
ossobuco wrote:
So, didn't Litvinenko go to the hotel first? There are traces of polonium 210 at the hotel.. so I'm wondering about the apparent sushi application. All very curious,
Several sites in London are now showing signs of Po210 contamination. It could be because Litvinenko spread it after he was contaminated, i.e. he visited all places (and of course some Po was found at his house) or it could be than it was spread by some other agency. As you say curious and VERY alarming.

With half the British establisment directly blaming President Putin, the other half is busily asking the Russians for advice on radiolocial clean up. (The Russians know more than anyone else after Chernobyl)
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